Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

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molnibalage
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby molnibalage » Wed 15 Mar 2017 14:11

Comrade_Bane wrote:Finnish has 50% ECM
American has 40% ECM

Lemme guess: "Flavour"

Pure stupidity. FIN has better ASF then US Navy. This is the flavour of WG.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Adarius » Wed 15 Mar 2017 14:26

molnibalage wrote:
Comrade_Bane wrote:Finnish has 50% ECM
American has 40% ECM

Lemme guess: "Flavour"

Pure stupidity. FIN has better ASF then US Navy. This is the flavour of WG.


Which is caused by the fact that Finland purchased their F-18C equipped with the AN/ALQ-165 self-protection system. The US Navy had previously cancelled their procurement of the system and only later bought a small number of them. From a game perspective Finland lucked out with the timing of their purchase and the mechanics of the game as this now give them 10 % extra in ECM while the EW aircrafts that would support a US Navy F/A-18C aircraft are not represented in the game as they fly somewhere off the map.

From the previous page:

Adarius wrote:I did some further checks and it look like the Finnish F-18C got the AN/ALQ-165 while the game designers have decided to not include it on the American F/A-18C. This make sense as the AN/ALQ-165 was ordered and installed on all Finnish F-18C while the US Navy first cancelled the procurement for the F/A-18C/D but later decided to purchase it for three squadrons after a F-16 was shot down over Bosnia in 1995.

The Block I F/A-18E/F also carry the AN/ALQ-165 while later versions got the AN/ALQ-214.

http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_fighters/f18_18.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... lq-165.htm
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... BFB48C75A8
http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabili ... fault.aspx
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... BFB48C75A8

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Comrade_Bane » Wed 15 Mar 2017 14:32

Adarius wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
Comrade_Bane wrote:Finnish has 50% ECM
American has 40% ECM

Lemme guess: "Flavour"

Pure stupidity. FIN has better ASF then US Navy. This is the flavour of WG.


Which is caused by the fact that Finland purchased their F-18C equipped with the AN/ALQ-165 self-protection system. The US Navy had previously cancelled their procurement of the system and only later bought a small number of them. From a game perspective Finland lucked out with the timing of their purchase and the mechanics of the game as this now give them 10 % extra in ECM while the EW aircrafts that would support a US Navy F/A-18C aircraft are not represented in the game as they fly somewhere off the map.

From the previous page:

Adarius wrote:I did some further checks and it look like the Finnish F-18C got the AN/ALQ-165 while the game designers have decided to not include it on the American F/A-18C. This make sense as the AN/ALQ-165 was ordered and installed on all Finnish F-18C while the US Navy first cancelled the procurement for the F/A-18C/D but later decided to purchase it for three squadrons after a F-16 was shot down over Bosnia in 1995.

The Block I F/A-18E/F also carry the AN/ALQ-165 while later versions got the AN/ALQ-214.

http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_fighters/f18_18.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... lq-165.htm
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... BFB48C75A8
http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabili ... fault.aspx
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... BFB48C75A8


From what i am reading using your link(s) the US NAVY did procure the ALQ-165 on multiple platforms (including the F/A.-18)... and that the system was field tested on both F/A-18A and C.
I do not think your justification holds up entirely.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Adarius » Wed 15 Mar 2017 15:03

Comrade_Bane wrote:From the previous page:
From what i am reading using your link(s) the US NAVY did procure the ALQ-165 on multiple platforms (including the F/A.-18)... and that the system was field tested on both F/A-18A and C.
I do not think your justification holds up entirely.


The US Navy bought 36 systems to be deployed on F/A-18C to equip 3 squadrons (see Global security link) after reassessing the importance of it based on lessons learned from the USAF loss of a F-16 over Bosnia in 1995. This mean that the configuration would be very uncommon during a war scenario as they only bought enough of them for limited peace keeping operations.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Mike » Wed 15 Mar 2017 15:33

Adarius wrote:Which is caused by the fact that Finland purchased their F-18C equipped with the AN/ALQ-165 self-protection system. the Super Hornet is trapped in the Naval tab when it could be a proper ASF with AMRAAMs and AIM-9Rs. The US Navy had previously cancelled their procurement of the system and only later bought a small number of them. From a game perspective Finland lucked out with the timing of their purchase and the mechanics of the game as this now give them 10 % extra in ECM while the EW aircrafts that would support a US Navy F/A-18C aircraft are not represented in the game as they fly somewhere off the map.


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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Partibrejker » Wed 15 Mar 2017 15:52

I do not know why is that, but, given the fact that you only get 1, not card, but unit, as a single plane, that is (in my opinion) worth getting it is not the end of the world. Speaking of irregularities I am still confused why some MiG 29 planes go 900kmh, while some go 1000 km/h(all of them should be flying 1000kmh) and the same thing goes for Sukhoi 27 planes, some go 900, some 1000, which makes no sense whatsoever. Or why Brdska pešadija do not get HE on their recoilless cannon, or why Israel gets better F16 ASAF than USA, or why is every single airplane gun under modeled, but warthog gun and airplane Vulcan gun over modeled, or where are superheavies for china and Scandinavia. I could go on for ages. But, I guess it was for the balancing purposes, so I gave up being Don Quixote. Though I still feel like biting someone on the ass when I see stats on airplane guns. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Seryn » Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:41

Partibrejker wrote:I do not know why is that, but, given the fact that you only get 1, not card, but unit, as a single plane, that is (in my opinion) worth getting it is not the end of the world. Speaking of irregularities I am still confused why some MiG 29 planes go 900kmh, while some go 1000 km/h(all of them should be flying 1000kmh) and the same thing goes for Sukhoi 27 planes, some go 900, some 1000, which makes no sense whatsoever. Or why Brdska pešadija do not get HE on their recoilless cannon, or why Israel gets better F16 ASAF than USA, or why is every single airplane gun under modeled, but warthog gun and airplane Vulcan gun over modeled, or where are superheavies for china and Scandinavia. I could go on for ages. But, I guess it was for the balancing purposes, so I gave up being Don Quixote. Though I still feel like biting someone on the ass when I see stats on airplane guns. :mrgreen:


You Misunderstand, the REDFOR Guns and Adens and Mausers and Giats and Defas suck not because of their stats, but because they lack the Dakka Dakka, I ran a Test with an Orao dogfighting a BAC Strikemaster, the Strikemaster won due to th Dakka Dakka. I ran similar tests comparing the Equalizer (Harrier II, AIMs turned off) vs a SU-25, the Harrier shaved half the health off the SU-25 in the Head-on. It would be an instant kill if I included AIMs. A-10 and Vulcan are the ways they are not because of some "HATO Bias", But because REDFOR really could care less about guns, The Vulcan and the GAU-8 are really that good.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:46

Orao should be having dual GSh-23L guns. Since each gun has 3600 RPM IRL, it should have combined output of 7200 RPM.

Vulcan has 6000 RPM output.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Seryn » Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:49

HrcAk47 wrote:Orao should be having dual GSh-23L guns. Since each gun has 3600 RPM IRL, it should have combined output of 7200 RPM.

Vulcan has 6000 RPM output.


Just off Experience from watching Aircraft guns, I have noticed Rotary guns work better. By a Long shot. (hue)

Can't put my finger on why.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Adarius » Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:54

Mike wrote:
Adarius wrote:Which is caused by the fact that Finland purchased their F-18C equipped with the AN/ALQ-165 self-protection system. the Super Hornet is trapped in the Naval tab when it could be a proper ASF with AMRAAMs and AIM-9Rs. The US Navy had previously cancelled their procurement of the system and only later bought a small number of them. From a game perspective Finland lucked out with the timing of their purchase and the mechanics of the game as this now give them 10 % extra in ECM while the EW aircrafts that would support a US Navy F/A-18C aircraft are not represented in the game as they fly somewhere off the map.


Fixed.


The commonality between F/A-18C/D and F/A-18E/F is impressive, but I do not think the F/A-18E/F is relevant to the topic of this thread which is about C version.

Partibrejker wrote:I do not know why is that, but, given the fact that you only get 1, not card, but unit, as a single plane, that is (in my opinion) worth getting it is not the end of the world. Speaking of irregularities I am still confused why some MiG 29 planes go 900kmh, while some go 1000 km/h(all of them should be flying 1000kmh) and the same thing goes for Sukhoi 27 planes, some go 900, some 1000, which makes no sense whatsoever. Or why Brdska pešadija do not get HE on their recoilless cannon, or why Israel gets better F16 ASAF than USA, or why is every single airplane gun under modeled, but warthog gun and airplane Vulcan gun over modeled, or where are superheavies for china and Scandinavia. I could go on for ages. But, I guess it was for the balancing purposes, so I gave up being Don Quixote. Though I still feel like biting someone on the ass when I see stats on airplane guns. :mrgreen:


I will keep my pet peeves out of this to stay on topic. But in at least some cases I think they can get away with claiming that the weapons load and/or engine versions justify it.

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