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ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 10:58
by Pleb Squasher
What on earth do you do as a player to counter these units? There's literally no cost effective counters/reliable counter play, despite these bastards having the capacity to easily make their points back with almost no input.
Obviously most ATGM infantry aren't a problem, however decent variants, like the Milan 3, Konkurs M and the infamous (and outright ridiculous) Spike can literally win games by making any kind of manoeuvre near towns impossible. Well it is possible, however you're so likely to lose ludicrous amounts of units worth of points to the 25-30 point mean machines.

Smoke is the obvious option, however smoke really is a pretty bad tool. Smoke has unreliable, difficult to see coverage. The ATGM team can just town hop or move slightly and the smoke is usually circumvented or they shoot you through some stupid gap in the smoke. Mortars often still cost more than any ATGM squad.
Fire position, well you're definitely going to take a lot of hits if you try to counter like this. Just generally, fire position is a really crap way to deal with these units and really doesn't function as a particularly effective or viable counter play.
Dealing with these units is just hideous and unfun, there is no reliable way to do so but these units are still so punishing. On some maps they are downright bullshit to play against.
Bombers are your worst option, as town hopping away is literally the easiest thing to do ever. It's pretty stupid really that these units don't have set up and tear down times to circumvent the town hopping cancer that accompanies them.

Honestly, I think it's pretty ridiculous how a generous sprinkling of these units totally shuts down any kind of vehicle movement in a significant area. It doesn't even matter that these guys have low ammo and health, they typically make their points back + more with their first one or two shots, who even cares if they die after that?
The only half decent way to counter these units I have success with, is noting where they are and using persistent shelling to pick them off. It's still very slow and unreliable, doesn't work at all vs big towns and any half decent players just town hop these guys forward once they're actually needed, so any shelling is unlikely to hit.

I remember back in EE, where if you wanted ATGM teams to be any good, you had to shell out way more points for them (you had to pay for veterency in EE). They did cost a significant amount, but it was fair because they were great at killing stuff, just like they are now...
This was even before proper town and stealth mechanics and they were still viable! Why on earth are so they so cheap now???

Does anyone have any reliable advice for countering these things?

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 11:12
by thenosh
Honestly, I don't see any two man ATGM team as a problem. The distance advantage can be taken by driving towards them in seconds, and even with "attack location" you can take them out in onehit. What are the situations you're referring to? I for my part even think they're a bit underperforming.

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 11:15
by Raguse
Mortars. Mortars are your friend. Mortars can into smoke. Mortars can into suppression fire. Mortars can into crushing 2/5 HP teams. Mortars are life.



Some other solution are to force them to drain their precious ammo, to attack them with infantry and/or flamenwerfer coverage, flanking them, or thinking mobile warfare: just ignore a Maginot-like town by finding another way, 'cause 300 pts of infantry/AA mobilized into a bunker are 300 pts unable to cover the rest of the map. Or just use mortars.

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 11:51
by Markenzwieback
1) Buy mortar
2) Spam Shift + B at ATGM position
3) ...
4) Profit?

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 13:07
by nuke92
Mortars? :lol:

Here is how you counter them in 2-3 seconds while advancing: 2450m cannons

->ShM vz.82 PRAM-S from vehicle tab. Buy one it's cheap, it's multi purpose and fire pos that 2450m cannon.
-> or BMP-3 and BMPT, not as cost efficient though and 3HE vs PRAM's 5HE

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 13:33
by FrangibleCover
This is entirely off-the-wall theorycrafting, I've never seen it tried, but could medium artillery be the solution to your problem if you're unsatisfied with the usual solutions? ATGM teams do not tend to move quickly so once you order the barrage the odds are good that they're still there to be hit in 30 seconds. 2 man squads are weak enough that the opposing player is unlikely to want to chance moving the team about and getting them caught by a shell while crossing the road. The cheap supply cost of medium artillery should keep long engagements reasonably efficient and once the ATGM team is stunned you can roll up and kill them with whatever you please. Alternatively, use the artillery for blanket smoke coverage. Do both, indeed!

You're going to make a point about cost efficiency and you're right. If all you want the howitzers to do is engage a single ATGM team and then you're going to leave them alone all match it's terribly point inefficient. Thing is, the other guy has more ATGM teams and if you've been shuffling your artillery properly your howitzers should still be intact to kill them too.

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 14:22
by HrcAk47
Eh. ATGMs are a non-issue. They die to a bunny fart. Even Maglans are manageable now.

Try using mortars or arty prep of the area you'd like to attack.

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 16:15
by Seryn
Sniper Teams, except the Yugos, as Senke are Totally unusable except for passive spotting.

Kampfschwimmer and Fernspaher are an example, or Spets VMF, or a Full on Shock Recon team, Like JSDF Rangers.

The point is dont fight with something if its target is it's counter.

Also are you fighting with T-55As/T-34-85s/M48s? that's the ONLY way an ATGM is a MAJOR threat from the front.

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 17:55
by BenKenobi
Don't play against nations that have Spikes in them. Problem solved.

Re: ATGM teams, the most annoying units to play against?

Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017 18:16
by Markenzwieback
HrcAk47 wrote:Eh. ATGMs are a non-issue. They die to a bunny fart. Even Maglans are manageable now.

Try using mortars or arty prep of the area you'd like to attack.

BenKenobi wrote:Don't play against nations that have Spikes in them. Problem solved.

Smoke spam was already a pretty good counter to Spikes before Maglans got nerfed though. :P