Eryx range

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nuke92
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Re: Eryx range

Postby nuke92 » Sat 20 May 2017 12:35

It would be nice to have a +91 button that needs to be activated if you want RD's timeframe.
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Re: Eryx range

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 20 May 2017 13:03

Fade2Gray wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:Reversing the timeframe a bit levels the playing field significantly in the field of MRAAMs, superheavies (T-80U glory, woo), while adding towed weapons... and I believe that minors can benefit a lot from it.

Towed weapons are not going to even come close to matching the raw power that USA, USSR, and Germany can put onto the field. You gotta come up with a lot more than that to make the minors competitive.

When Panzer Lehr drops I think we'll see that having the coolest toys does not necessarily guarantee victory in the SD set up. I don't actually like what SD has done with tiny availabilities and tiny incomes on tiny maps and I want Wargame's scale back but I can't argue that it's nixed the strongest unit = strongest faction thing that Wargame was plagued with. Maybe the answer really was cost decompression all along.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: Eryx range

Postby CommanderDef » Sat 20 May 2017 16:22

Bougnas wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:
Bougnas wrote:

You're talking about SD: Fulda 89 then.

Just imagine Wargame with all (but the phase system that might be too complicted to adapt) features from SD, including the new units types (infntry mortars and mgs, towed weapons).

Just think about the new memes: "2A29 Rapira OP", "Swedish recoiless rifles 2 stronk", "Rapiers towed by landrovers ruin everything"

Oh, and if we stick to the European theater only (Asia can be a standalone to prevent the mess from RD with Polish units in Korea), Italy will unleash havoc with the Aspide Skyguard system.


What you describe is my dream game :D


Mine as well. Just for fun I made a fully historical (no proto) canadian battlegroup from 1980-1989 (most modern unit variants before 1980).
The result was interesting, not a huge improvement when going through the timeframe (except from ADATS and Javelin and some stuff) but it holds it's ground when you compare it to other minors: pretty modern Leopard C1, TOW 2 units, cheap units that get the job done (Lynx, Grizzly) and the Cougar Recce becomes an IFV for a 2-man recon squad.


Also, Sweden becomes a meme. And even without protos Yugoslavia would still be pretty good with towed weapons.

I think that towed weapons can be done in WG. They would have to be modeled as infantry with a really slow movement with truck transport. Many of the infantry RRs in game should actually be towed weapons.
Same could be done for AT mines, infantry type, 1kmph (so it can be moved into cover), very small, exceptional stealth, +/-100m 30AP HEAT, one shot, HE for self destruct.

What I would like about infantry weapons is that the basic rifle guys and recon/special units should carry just a lightweight AT, like LAW, AT4 and such. Things like SMAW, RPG 16 or Vampir should be reserved for tank killer FIST teams.
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Re: Eryx range

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 20 May 2017 23:05

FrangibleCover wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:Reversing the timeframe a bit levels the playing field significantly in the field of MRAAMs, superheavies (T-80U glory, woo), while adding towed weapons... and I believe that minors can benefit a lot from it.

Towed weapons are not going to even come close to matching the raw power that USA, USSR, and Germany can put onto the field. You gotta come up with a lot more than that to make the minors competitive.

When Panzer Lehr drops I think we'll see that having the coolest toys does not necessarily guarantee victory in the SD set up. I don't actually like what SD has done with tiny availabilities and tiny incomes on tiny maps and I want Wargame's scale back but I can't argue that it's nixed the strongest unit = strongest faction thing that Wargame was plagued with. Maybe the answer really was cost decompression all along.

WGRD used to be all about cheap unit spam, and then medium tanks became meta, and then it evolved into super heavy meta. Getting excited now that they "fixed" that is a bit presumptuous don't you think?
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Re: Eryx range

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 20 May 2017 23:40

Fade2Gray wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:When Panzer Lehr drops I think we'll see that having the coolest toys does not necessarily guarantee victory in the SD set up. I don't actually like what SD has done with tiny availabilities and tiny incomes on tiny maps and I want Wargame's scale back but I can't argue that it's nixed the strongest unit = strongest faction thing that Wargame was plagued with. Maybe the answer really was cost decompression all along.

WGRD used to be all about cheap unit spam, and then medium tanks became meta, and then it evolved into super heavy meta. Getting excited now that they "fixed" that is a bit presumptuous don't you think?

Minors can do cheap unit spam and medium tanks just fine. They struggle in the superheavy meta and they struggled even in the other metas with super units. It's not like the superheavy meta is a one time only meta anyway:
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I'm not saying that it's fixed, I'm not even saying for sure that it will turn out to have been fixed. I'm just saying that towed units are not the only improvement that a straight Steel Division cut-n'-paste game may have on the Cold War minors. Harsher pricing for super units will help them and so will a variable attachment system where a single Danish unit may have the full support allocation of the Danish Armed Forces but any given US unit will only receive what's on the ToE and a handful of attachments. The brigade system also means that the Apaches are not going to be in the same deck as the US Marines or the M1A1(HA)s, it's easy to say that the US can take Norway down any day but can 5th MAB take the Brigade Nord?
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: Eryx range

Postby throwaway » Sun 21 May 2017 00:30

Superheavies only really dominate when the map is too small. Even on nuclear winter, which has perfect terrain for them, they're optional if you play it 1v1. Strong but not an overwhelming no-brainer choice from the very opener.

The issue is that the community loves playing 4v4s on 1v1 and 2v2 maps. Those who move on from that too often go on to perpetually play 3v3 and 4v4 on ridge, which is a mislabeled 2v2 map, or 2v2s on punjing. And in those conditions it's easy to open with a super and expensive AA and not get punished for it.

The players strongly resist playing on more than a screen's worth of territory though. There's no hope fighting that tendency, if it's more fun it's more fun, regardless of dev intentions. So maybe for a future game everything should be rebalanced to make sense in conditions of 1-2 flanks per player, but I don't see how mediums and heavies could coexist in an environment like that where they can't avoid each other. SD moves in that direction, and I haven't played it much but I did get the impression that heavy tanks obsolete lighter stuff when available [and the really cheap light tanks have been outright removed, everything is 50pt+].

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Re: Eryx range

Postby thelizardofdoom » Sun 21 May 2017 03:54

Towed units would be useless in RD, as SD demonstrates. In phase B and beyond you can expect your towed unit to engage one target and then be pummeled with artillery. And they don't even have long range mortars in that game........
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Re: Eryx range

Postby captaincarnage » Sun 21 May 2017 05:12

So don't nerf the units nerf the players :P

Not that i'm against an eryx nerf, its a collosal PITA and i feel dirty every time i use them, then i remember that i don't give a shit :D
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Re: Eryx range

Postby Bougnas » Sun 21 May 2017 10:05

thelizardofdoom wrote:Towed units would be useless in RD, as SD demonstrates. In phase B and beyond you can expect your towed unit to engage one target and then be pummeled with artillery. And they don't even have long range mortars in that game........


We just need to make sure that towed units still keep their transports after being unloaded so they can get out fast.
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Re: Eryx range

Postby HrcAk47 » Sun 21 May 2017 10:21

Bougnas wrote:
thelizardofdoom wrote:Towed units would be useless in RD, as SD demonstrates. In phase B and beyond you can expect your towed unit to engage one target and then be pummeled with artillery. And they don't even have long range mortars in that game........


We just need to make sure that towed units still keep their transports after being unloaded so they can get out fast.


+1 on towed transports NOT disappearing. They should be supply trucks that carry most of the ammo for the towed weapon.

Towed stuff allows more nations to be played standalone - look at Poland, it is unplayable solo, as it has no SP Mortar option. Which is quite sad, really - no true superheavy is not gamebreaking, but no mortar is.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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