The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Fodder
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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby Fodder » Thu 17 Aug 2017 19:23

But without the ability to view someones stats how are your going to know if your are facing a lvl50 or a lvl5? I mean with view stats you can know if the other team is all lvl50 and if your team is all lvl4. Then you can at least brace yourself for a loss.

View Stats should be kept becuz you know can avoid getting utterly destroy.
Last edited by Fodder on Thu 17 Aug 2017 23:39, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby throwaway » Thu 17 Aug 2017 20:27

Crotou wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:I'd rather wait a little longer than end games after 10 minutes, because a random doesn't even know the basics yet. Please bring the view stats option back.


My experience (with my mates) in Red Dragon with lobbies :


I too love getting together with my mates to wreck random uncoordinated teams with noobs mixed in. Making it impossible for them to detect that we're mates is great :!: :!:

If you remove the View stats button, you still have a risk to play loosy 5 minutes shitty games (with random quitters/stomped noobs) but at least, you don't wait half an hour because princesses check everyone's stats.


They could also say that you're a princess for wanting to play on the same side as your mates. Or they could respect your preference to play with your mates and you could respect theirs, to not play stacks.

To finish, the truth is that public lobbies are a very bad thing in terms of multiplayer experience. A real matchmaker with all quality of life options is what Wargame and SD need.

I agree.

urogard wrote:Now people check stats and still you end up with shit games with extremely high frequency.
Button is removed, same risk remains, but ultimately the game experience improves, if not ingame but most certainly in the lobby.


If you kicked noobs too instead of relying exclusively on them to leave, you wouldn't get shit games with "extremely high frequency".

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby urogard » Thu 17 Aug 2017 21:46

throwaway wrote:If you kicked noobs too instead of relying exclusively on them to leave, you wouldn't get shit games with "extremely high frequency".

Rhetorical question
How do you distinguish noobs from not noobs? Because it sure as hell isn't simply games played or win/loss ratio. At best you can distinguish between less than hundred games played and more than hundred games played, but that's about it.

If there was some easy way of parsing leaving times, I don't think i'd find significant correlation between number of minutes elapsed until first player leaves the game and # of games played by that player.

The only list I trust is the friend list I'm building up slowly by marking down players who actually play well ingame.

If anything removing the show stats button would go a long way in stopping the one sided stacking on 10v10 servers because currently 95% of games I play there happen as follows:
I join 0/20 lobby
Wait 5-25 minutes for 9 players to join who for some odd reason always join whichever team I decided to play as, interestingly enough as a rule they all have overwhelmingly positive w/l ratios.
Wait another 10-30 minutes for a bunch of poor sobs who still don't understand how the game works to fill up the opposing team and the game to start.

And then win/lose is in almost all cases simply based on 2 factors:
How retarded is the opposing team (notice I'm not saying how "good" they are, because they mostly aren't)
How many stackers we have on our team who can't really play for shit and only joined my side to be with good players to carry them to victory.

If the # of retards is similar then obviously it comes down to how well me and the other people who are capable players actually fare in the game, but that's maybe one in 10 games. If we pull some exceptional shit then we can win even with 5-7 idiots on our team, I've seen that happen.

1 out of 20/30 games I end up being on the team with full of noobs because organized team joins the opposing side and stackers on my side have a hard time beating players with actual skill.

Removing the show stats button would on average significantly improve the spread of good players which currently is almost always close to 100% on one single side. I.e. you can't really go higher than 100% but you can go a looong way down.

PS: EUG could remove button and have added another lobby setting for player level disallowing players with lower than required level from joining the lobby. And they could have done this all the way back in ALB, but alas we have this now.

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby throwaway » Fri 18 Aug 2017 00:11

urogard wrote:How do you distinguish noobs from not noobs? Because it sure as hell isn't simply games played or win/loss ratio. At best you can distinguish between less than hundred games played and more than hundred games played, but that's about it.


If you can't stop all instances of Bad Thing, it doesn't follow that you should make no effort to stop some or make it outright impossible to do so.

You're also being silly with your ranking. There are many distinct categories of player, here are some I came up with as I was typing them out:
1. 10 games played
2. 100 games played
3. 1000 games played, most destruction
4. 3000 games played, most destruction
5. colonel on ranked
6. 1000 games played, most conquest, ranked high
7. 3000 games played, most conquest, ranked high

It's a scale, not a binary noob-not noob. I'm not gonna have a fair game with a 10 games player but I'm also not gonna have a fair game with a 1000 games destruction player. Surely you know your own category and roughly what players fit into it?

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby Razzmann » Fri 18 Aug 2017 00:31

I don't know why someone would expect 10v10 servers to be balanced.

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby Eltango » Fri 18 Aug 2017 01:54

Crotou wrote:It's the best improvement to the game since ages.



Yes it is a blessing! I hope Eugen keeps the stat hidden, no problem with me.

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby Falcrack » Fri 18 Aug 2017 02:05

Fodder wrote:But without the ability to view someones stats how are your going to know if your are facing a lvl50 or a lvl5? I mean with view stats you can know if the other team is all lvl50 and if your team is all lvl4. Then you can at least brace yourself for a loss.

View Stats should be kept becuz you know can avoid getting utterly destroy.


The problem is, high stat players cluster together. If those high stat players couldn't see stats of other players, then there may be a chance that the high stat players will become more evenly distributed amongst both teams. Now, a groups of friends may be playing which know they are all good to stack a lobby ahead of time, but most of the time this is not the case. Most of the time, a good player comes into the lobby (not a part of a prearranged team), sees the lobby balance, and either leaves because his team is bad stat wise, switches to the higher stat team, or stays on the low stat side like a noble gentleman for the sake of balance (hahahaha, what am I thinking?)

If stats were hidden, that same skilled player may enter a lobby, not know which side was going to have the advantage, and say to himself, "gee, I hope I have good teamates". Then the game could proceed, with skilled players on both sides.

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 18 Aug 2017 02:11

Crotou wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:I'd rather wait a little longer than end games after 10 minutes, because a random doesn't even know the basics yet. Please bring the view stats option back.


My experience (with my mates) in Red Dragon with lobbies :
1) We try to go in an already open lobby. 9 out of 10 times, we get kicked because our stats looks too high for the hosting team/guy.

2) We create a lobby and wait for players. We don't care if we are going to face good or bad players. We wait 20-30 minutes while seeing something like 50 people coming in then going out after checking our stats and/or their allies' stats. Finally, the game is launched. Half the times, the game ends in 5 minutes because one guy randomly quits.

If you remove the View stats button, you still have a risk to play loosy 5 minutes shitty games (with random quitters/stomped noobs) but at least, you don't wait half an hour because princesses check everyone's stats.

To finish, the truth is that public lobbies are a very bad thing in terms of multiplayer experience. A real matchmaker with all quality of life options is what Wargame and SD need.

The highlighted part in particular just screams "pubstompers." The rest of your post is just fluff that doesn't do a very good job of trying to hide the fact. Not being able to view stats is a stacked team's dream. If the other team sucks? Oh well, "at least we got to play." :roll: Maybe you should host a game where your lobby is titled "looking for non-n00b team" and then ruthlessly boot any scrubs that join?
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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby throwaway » Fri 18 Aug 2017 02:50

Falcrack wrote:The problem is, high stat players cluster together. If those high stat players couldn't see stats of other players, then there may be a chance that the high stat players will become more evenly distributed amongst both teams.


And there's also the chance that high stat players will add each other to friend list after the first time they play against each other, as is the current custom.

Falcrack wrote: Now, a groups of friends may be playing which know they are all good to stack a lobby ahead of time, but most of the time this is not the case. Most of the time, a good player comes into the lobby (not a part of a prearranged team), sees the lobby balance, and either leaves because his team is bad stat wise, switches to the higher stat team, or stays on the low stat side like a noble gentleman for the sake of balance (hahahaha, what am I thinking?)


There are so many prearranged teams that a consistent part of my playtime with friends involves joining other teams' games. This is before the game encouraged premade teams by hiding their association with each other.

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Re: The blessing of the missing stats --> quick lobbies

Postby Steamfunk » Fri 18 Aug 2017 03:54

I don't see why we can't just go back to the system we had in EE/ALB where you could see XP and make their moves accordingly. Everyone seems to be obsessed with stats and the game panders to them. Maybe it's because most of these guys have only really played RD or come from dark places like LOL.. I must be getting old because I can remember when RTS was fun.

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