Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby throwaway » Thu 24 Aug 2017 01:19

another505 wrote:the problem I have with no reload is just wtf. No units deserve that. It also makes it dumb against ground targets, perma stunning tanks and inf.
Its one reason i never get afganskii in my deck knowing that the vulcan is MUCH better against ground units for the same price for one of the dumbest reason


The whole discussion is about whether no reload is a good thing or a bad thing, so saying nobody deserves it kinda assumes the conclusion. I used to think it's universally a bad thing, since it only helps if you for some reason want to delay and spread out your damage, aka in the rare case of suppressing infantry for long periods. Sigird showed me that it's also good in some cases against multiple planes where you want to scratch all of them without having to micro to do it, but I still think that overall it's worse than burst fire.

Pivads can already do 7-9 dmg if a plane stays overhead for ~5s, if you add a brief reload of 3s or so and frontloaded all that damage to keep the same overall rof, OPvulcan would acquire a new meaning. Make the reload longer and you'd have single pivads consistently killing planes.

another505 wrote:
Razzmann wrote:Morale has no effect on plane acc.

Even air to ground? I thought only air to air.

I think nick originally found this for air to ground specifically. I'm not even sure if it applies for air to air.

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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby another505 » Thu 24 Aug 2017 02:38

nande wrote:
Razzmann wrote:Morale has no effect on plane acc.
???

I am so confused now lol

Base on experience they do affect air to ground...
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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby another505 » Thu 24 Aug 2017 02:42

Anyways shilka and biryusa is a bit overpriced
Range increment increase or just flat price decrease is sufficient

I want to see more iconic cold war units being used
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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby thelizardofdoom » Thu 24 Aug 2017 03:01

So about the morale on planes.......does it affect air and ground or just one? Does it affect reload times? How about target acquire?
Yes im aware my grammar and spelling are dreadful. Email complaints to android for having terrible software or eugen for having a mobile unfriendly site.

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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby chykka » Thu 24 Aug 2017 03:49

throwaway wrote:
GARGEAN wrote:Because it IS drawback in both AA and AG work.

Give me one case where having a reload is a drawback in AA work. You can make up any engagement length and reload length you want, the worst case you'll be able to come up with will be a tie.

Sigirdiwarth wrote:Misleading RoF charts is hardly a benefit. The only thing that matters is the TTK against planes and the ability to keep ground targets suppressed until they stop being a threat. In the latter case, having to reload is a major weakness.

And in the former case, the main use case, it is a benefit. Keeping ground targets suppressed is pretty secondary and doesn't even apply to all ground targets, just infantry (against tanks you're relying on crits, and those are preferably frontloaded).


I'm a little currious about this as well, Afganski can fight air at low range but it's more dedicated too ground support with a huge RoF.
I imagine Reload's and the time it takes to do so is more situational disadvantage. If assuming two Spaags have identical Damage out put.

But inorder to be identical the Reloading spaag technically would have to do the damage it's misses during reload. If you are assuming shooting at a tank on the ground lets say. It won't kill it quickly so if the reload phase actually become missed damage than it is a clear disadvantage to a reload even if it is situational against planes, if one burst is enough to deal with one plane. However if your shooting 18 seconds with a Vulcan and only 9 with a Shilka at identical damage the Shilka would have to do double the damage of the Vulcan to have the same damage out put over a time of 18 seconds. If we assume a reload of 9 seconds, which could create a bit of a mess balance wise if you tried to make them equal , Asymetric balance seems ideal in a situation like this. Maybe Shilka does damage bit faster at like 1/3 more damage output in the initial burst requiring you to have more than one to deal with planes that only fly over for a short time in the short range they have.
And if Stacked Sead suppression will actually effect the Shilka's if they are not spread.

As for planes I really have not much clue how Moral effects them. I really only see the effect a stun has on Air to ground or even Air to Air situations.
I could see Moral effecting gun accuracy, however not sure if it does and have not tested it. Vetterancy probably has more effect on hit chance I used the most expensive mig 27 at Rookie a while ago and missed 6 f&f missiles in a row on a leopard 2 in the open. Sure they rank up faster but only really with incoming fire, which is I think either effect applied when moral recovers.
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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Razzmann » Thu 24 Aug 2017 10:06

I did tests with SEAD, Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground missiles. None of them were affected by morale.

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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Shika » Sun 27 Aug 2017 04:17

Finland does not need any nerfs, it already stands as a nation that does nothing exceptionally well, but nothing poorly. The nation is absolutely fine right now, their helicopters are great for anti infantry if you catch them out but the power of infrared aa and infantry in the current state means you should never, ever complain about any helicopter unless it's an infrared helo because that affects the start of the game immensely. Finland's air capacity has solid fighters but that's it, their bombers have horrible ECM, the highest of which is 10% on...one of the planes, cannot remember. Complaining about the Hawk is stupid because of how fragile it is and the small payload, it is an anti flank plane, not an offensive plane. The only thing Finland really has going for it is the availability of great radar AA along with a well rounded standard in everything else, the only thing subpar is their bombers but their airborne deck is already mediocre, so not a real issue as they can hold their own defensively bombing, just they are not viable for offensive bombing like say RD airborne is.

Yugoslavia is kind of like Israel but with worse infantry and armor, but better helicopters and radar AA. I'm sorry, but for some reason NATO players seem to cry a lot when PACT gets something that is a unicorn unit..much like NATO has had and still has for some time. Yugoslavia is a scary nation, just like when I see Israel or Eurocorps I know I'm going to be facing best in class units. I don't mind Israel's tanks because there are so many counters, you just shouldn't face them face to face with a tank. I do mind the armor on their transports being so good at expending your AT infantry's numbers, morale, and ammunition.

I'm okay if the NEVA got RAD added simply because it would only be fair. As it stands my only major problem with these nations is power creep artillery. Artillery overall is too strong right now and has been for some time, especially in conquest
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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby chykka » Sun 27 Aug 2017 22:13

Finnish infantry are pretty good too, almost too good. I almost always prefer to take the Radar version of Newa. Jujst for the range and lower cost.
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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby Markenzwieback » Sun 27 Aug 2017 22:28

Shika wrote:---snip---

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Finland has quite some units which are in need of a nerf (all on them on the list with reasoning). Especially the MiG-29 is beyond broken in terms of killing potential. Beyond that, 185KTs are pretty damn strong (I'd say pretty damn broken, but some disagree) and Jääkäri '90 allow for a neat spam of those with very good line infantry.
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Re: Broken Shit that Needs Fixing ASAP

Postby nande » Sun 27 Aug 2017 23:53

I don't get why so few people are mentioning AMX-10s, esp. if 185KTs are being brought up.

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