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Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Wed 13 Sep 2017 17:18
by Steamfunk
The rule is pretty simple, 30mm penetration is 1 AP. If you have a round piercing 300mm, it's 10 AP.


The M60A1 has 11AP and that's using either the M392A2 or M728 which are around 225mm-250mm. M60A3 and M1 have 13 AP and they both use the M735 which is 300mm.

XanderTuron wrote:
The armour and AP on the early Merkavas seem to be a little too high in my opinion, especially when considering when they were introduced.

GARGEAN wrote:
Little?.. They are overmodelled as fuck, and not only early ones.


The Merkava I uses the M-111 with 320mm pen - Merkava II uses M-418 which has 380mm, so the AP values are roughly correct. I'm more concerned by 18 FAV and the grenade launcher on the IIA.

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Wed 13 Sep 2017 18:06
by FrangibleCover
Steamfunk wrote:The Merkava I uses the M-111 with 320mm pen - Merkava II uses M-418 which has 380mm, so the AP values are roughly correct. I'm more concerned by 18 FAV and the grenade launcher on the IIA.

The grenade launcher is fine, totally realistic. It's the fact that it's a transport that's bollocks.

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Wed 13 Sep 2017 19:24
by XanderTuron
FrangibleCover wrote:The grenade launcher is fine, totally realistic. It's the fact that it's a transport that's bollocks.

Are you saying that a vehicle that can comfortably carry less passengers than a Humvee should not be a transport?

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 11:31
by urogard
XanderTuron wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:The grenade launcher is fine, totally realistic. It's the fact that it's a transport that's bollocks.

Are you saying that a vehicle that can comfortably carry less passengers than a Humvee should not be a transport?

Image

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 12:04
by Grabbed_by_the_Spets
Mike wrote:
Razzmann wrote:
Oktoberfest wrote:I remember that post very well, but the rule was broken immediately afterwards when DLC Nations came.

Such as? Which 105mm gun breaks the rule?


Pretty sure an Israeli tank gets the M900 (17 AP) before the round was even produced.



I mean they also get models of AIM-9 and AIM-120 before they were even produced too.

Also an ATGM tank about 30 years before it was produced too.

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 12:15
by Markenzwieback
Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:Also an ATGM tank about 30 years before it was produced too.

Spike NLOS was developed throughout the 1980s and both Hafiz and Pereh can therefore easily be rated within timeframe as a early 1990s prototype vehicle.

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 13:15
by Oktoberfest
Bougnas wrote:When did France receive the OFL105G2 round?


1985, after noticing standard OFL105-F1 rounds developped for the AMX-30B2 modernization were too weak and barely improved the penetration over the Obus G, so around 1984-1985.

For the OFL-105F2, it was developped rapidly after noticing the efficiency of the US DU rounds against Iraqi tanks. It's also sometimes referred to as the OFL-105E2. You can google both.

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 13:18
by Oktoberfest
Steamfunk wrote:
The rule is pretty simple, 30mm penetration is 1 AP. If you have a round piercing 300mm, it's 10 AP.


The M60A1 has 11AP and that's using either the M392A2 or M728 which are around 225mm-250mm. M60A3 and M1 have 13 AP and they both use the M735 which is 300mm.



Relics of EE/ALB? Or they shoot later rounds.

The 30mm rule = 1AP is the general rule of the rounds introduced in Red Dragon, except for penetration above 24. In the Beta, the M1A2 had 25AP IIRC.

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 13:47
by Sleksa
Oktoberfest wrote:The 30mm rule = 1AP is the general rule of the rounds introduced in Red Dragon, except for penetration above 24. In the Beta, the M1A2 had 25AP IIRC.


where do you keep finding these rules

Re: Broken Stuff that Needs Fixing ASAP

Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 14:30
by Oktoberfest
Sleksa wrote:
Oktoberfest wrote:The 30mm rule = 1AP is the general rule of the rounds introduced in Red Dragon, except for penetration above 24. In the Beta, the M1A2 had 25AP IIRC.


where do you keep finding these rules


I don't remember precisely but that's what was defined over 3 years ago. It's a general thumb of rule for ammo and armor efficiency and only the extreme values (extreme low armor or extreme high AP) are adapted. Hence the 6/7 AV on the AMX-30 even though it should be way lower, or the 24AP for the M1A2 even though it should get 25. But that's RD Beta timeframe we are talking about here.

I think it was BTR that made a file where every ammo was listed on an excel file, with the penetration values in game and how they should be valued in game. I even had this file saved somewhere but cannot find it anymore, unfortunately. Maybe someone can help?