"category" system removal + price range change

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damoj
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"category" system removal + price range change

Postby damoj » Wed 30 Aug 2017 05:50

Should Wargame 4 remove the simplistic Category system we currently have in Red Dragon?

Should Categories be refined to specific years that better simulate a conflict escalation, weapon-intros/balance? ie A for strict '92, B for '87, C for '82, etc?

Should the 5-200pt price range be spread out a bit further?

If the maximum price cap - think top-tier ASFs and superheavies currently at 170-200pts - was increased to 250 or so, with other units having their price stretched along this scale, we could potentially have more of a difference at lower-to-mid areas of unit price, and more flexibility with price balancing.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby throwaway » Wed 30 Aug 2017 07:39

Categories are only there for roleplayers, don't see the point of messing with them.

The price suggestion has been around for a while, more with the idea of doubling every price so that there's more space at the jäger level. I don't see the point, some coalitions should have better infantry than others, the goal should not be to make them all equally efficient using super granular pricing.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby thelizardofdoom » Wed 30 Aug 2017 07:59

I feel like stretching the price out will make things more complicated. We all know a certain 5 pt increment system that needs to go......
Yes im aware my grammar and spelling are dreadful. Email complaints to android for having terrible software or eugen for having a mobile unfriendly site.

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damoj
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby damoj » Wed 30 Aug 2017 08:23

throwaway wrote:Categories are only there for roleplayers, don't see the point of messing with them.


They don't help "role-play" much at all. Arbitrary '80 and '85 cut-offs don't work well for balance, hence my '82ish and '87ish suggestion.

throwaway wrote:The price suggestion has been around for a while, more with the idea of doubling every price so that there's more space at the jäger level. I don't see the point, some coalitions should have better infantry than others, the goal should not be to make them all equally efficient using super granular pricing.


I don't think "super granular pricing" would make them all "equally efficient", particularly as the speed at which cheaper units can be called out makes a serious difference in competitive play, and we're talking potentially about one or two more incremental tiers at that scale.

Currently it's 5, 10, 15 for line inf and 5, 10, 15+ for transports. Adding 20 and 25 (think Fusilier '90-tier inf) and having what is now a 25pt FSV shifted up to 35 or so is the sort of vibe I'm suggesting. Something like a T-72 would go to about 60 or 65, etc, with M1A1-tier units taking up the slot of what is a currently Leopard 2A4 price point, or something to that effect.

thelizardofdoom wrote:I feel like stretching the price out will make things more complicated. We all know a certain 5 pt increment system that needs to go......


5pt increments at a larger spread may in effect function similarly to a 1pt increment, fwiw. But I think there's a best of both worlds approach to be had.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby chykka » Wed 30 Aug 2017 10:06

They feel more like leftovers from when Romantic play was a bit easier to get away with those more hyper aggressive play styles. Most of the time RD boils down too small positional advantages at the middle of the map.
Although they do make some pretty strong imbalances to be used, Mech used to be all the rage even though it was a bit slower in openings.
I imagined a two side thing like Mixed red vs blue except in alb Ussr could replace mixed red with proto's almost if you exclude Era edges, with specs making for a lot more variation in play.
The specs are a lot more well crafted in RD, less weaknesses so they actually should seem more appealing to use The extra slots and vett bonus should give you a good bit to focus around.
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby Sleksa » Wed 30 Aug 2017 10:40

Age category decks (much like destruction) should be gone and most of the spec decks reworked into something that works to prevent noob trap decks.

Alternatively there should be a size 80 blinking font and a screaming audio that yells the 80's north korean marine deck to not be viable in multiplayer, weakening the player's team if he chooses to use it.
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damoj
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby damoj » Wed 30 Aug 2017 10:58

Sleksa wrote:Age category decks (much like destruction) should be gone and most of the spec decks reworked into something that works to prevent noob trap decks.


I'm sympathetic to their total removal, but a lot of legacy units have utility in standard "Category A" games, and there is a case for removing a lot of units that would be out of service c. 1992. Therefore, I think a slight shift of years to better take into account new weapon systems - like MANPADS and AT Infantry weapons, and general parity in tank AP/AV & ASFs would work well.

I'd also like to see a sort of Out Of Service year value, cheesing '92 era units with stuff that would not be in service/pressed into service from mothballing is kinda strange, also can help restrict cheesy decks (eg. Israel mech from spamming 6 cards of Rovait + Zeldas + Merks + Azcharits).

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby molnibalage » Wed 30 Aug 2017 11:18

damoj wrote:Should Wargame 4 remove the simplistic Category system we currently have in Red Dragon?

Should Categories be refined to specific years that better simulate a conflict escalation, weapon-intros/balance? ie A for strict '92, B for '87, C for '82, etc?

Should the 5-200pt price range be spread out a bit further?

If the maximum price cap - think top-tier ASFs and superheavies currently at 170-200pts - was increased to 250 or so, with other units having their price stretched along this scale, we could potentially have more of a difference at lower-to-mid areas of unit price, and more flexibility with price balancing.

WG4? Eugen focues for years as I see on StDv...

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby Sleksa » Wed 30 Aug 2017 12:50

damoj wrote:
Sleksa wrote:Age category decks (much like destruction) should be gone and most of the spec decks reworked into something that works to prevent noob trap decks.


I'm sympathetic to their total removal, but a lot of legacy units have utility in standard "Category A" games, and there is a case for removing a lot of units that would be out of service c. 1992. Therefore, I think a slight shift of years to better take into account new weapon systems - like MANPADS and AT Infantry weapons, and general parity in tank AP/AV & ASFs would work well.


I'm not advocating for the removal of cat C-B units but for the removal of cat-deck specialization option.

damoj wrote:I'd also like to see a sort of Out Of Service year value, cheesing '92 era units with stuff that would not be in service/pressed into service from mothballing is kinda strange, also can help restrict cheesy decks (eg. Israel mech from spamming 6 cards of Rovait + Zeldas + Merks + Azcharits).


This could be solved by adding a new "prototypes" tab that has the slot pricing of an aircraft tab.
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby urogard » Wed 30 Aug 2017 12:59

molnibalage wrote:
damoj wrote:Should Wargame 4 remove the simplistic Category system we currently have in Red Dragon?

WG4? Eugen focues for years as I see on StDv...

Since RD has 2.5-4 times the playerbase of SD (depending on the time of day), the real question with respect to focusing on SD is:

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