"category" system removal + price range change

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molnibalage
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby molnibalage » Fri 1 Sep 2017 13:39

urogard wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
urogard wrote:I'm not sure about that.
Ships prove that units can have more than 3 independent weapons, probably EUG simply didn't consider it worthwhile effort to adapt UI to account for that fact.

As I can remember not only me but others also suggested to remove the gun from AC as slot and make in invisible ora single line stat to get better airplane loadouts. Nothing happened even it would help create much mor usable multirole jets...

I know it would inconvenience me a lot if I were unable to manually turn off the guns on most planes I buy

For ASF is not important, they never evac after AAM depletion and has 0 impact on missile aiming the gun.

For A-10, Su-25 ad Su-24 (?) - I cannot remember Su-24 - which can use gun against tanks also do not have any effect the gun. I always micromanage the A-10 to turn off after missile lauch. In CAT A gun of A-10 is simply useless... Even in Cat C is very dangerous to use gun...

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby molnibalage » Fri 1 Sep 2017 13:50

chykka wrote:Although maybe this is one of the reasons "Tactical" matches are more popular in RD. At least it seems like it, but there still is a lot of good gameplay elements in RD.


I loved in both but in both games many time were way too tactical. To me is the best 400-500 CP start income and slower generation as normal. The 200-300 CP start. income with the slowest income is way to tactical. A good tactical game where even heavy tanks are affordable but not in massive scales. In 500 CP tactical game once I tried to use many cheaper but high XP units but it did not worked...

Artillery has maybe been the best it's ever been in RD with the exception of some really 'near useless' pieces. I was playing ALB recently and the Burantino is maybe the weakest in the Series in ALB. Except maybe on some maps.

Arty is another sin of RD... In ALB even plan old arty had fast aim time but it was not for killing, it was lowering morale tool. Only instane ammount of 105/155 mm arty was able to kill even just lightly armored vehicles and was not clustery arty. CV snpinig also existed but it was far, far harded. Hidden CV tanks were almost perfectly safe...

...while in RD with bind and lucky cluster arty can kill almost anyting...
...cluster bombers are now bad joke, nobody ever use them...

Although, tbh I remember more rushing in ALB. At least for buildings, there was more smoke and fast move into buildings in those days. I don't see it as much in RD, but might be more map dependent.

Same inf. rush in RD, or even harder. In ALB only a very few inf. were able to deal against FAV on med-heavy tanks up from 14 AV. Now in RD A cat inf. with up to 25-26 AP stuff installikk almost anyting so rushing bulidings is even more important. In ALB tank supported inf. could deal the opponent inf. Now tanks cannot do intervention to combat in RPG range because even 80-110 CP tank two hits killed by RPG weapons with 875 m range ans insane ACC.

In ALB RPG type weapons had less range and AP which better modeled RL with range absrtacrions. In RL RPG type weapons are last chance for fighting, against moving targets above 200-300 m CTH is almost theoretical. In RD some RPG type weapon on some maps is area denial weapon... This is a bad joke...


Alb did feel better, (sometimes gameplay wise)

After I stopped RD I still player for a while ALB even its all faults. I rather play any day with an ALB then RD with amph. capability, LOG chain and its deck system comparing to RD.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby throwaway » Fri 1 Sep 2017 14:54

molnibalage wrote:
urogard wrote:I know it would inconvenience me a lot if I were unable to manually turn off the guns on most planes I buy

For ASF is not important, they never evac after AAM depletion and has 0 impact on missile aiming the gun.

For A-10, Su-25 ad Su-24 (?) - I cannot remember Su-24 - which can use gun against tanks also do not have any effect the gun. I always micromanage the A-10 to turn off after missile lauch. In CAT A gun of A-10 is simply useless... Even in Cat C is very dangerous to use gun...


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The issue is that when using manual evac, a shift-queued evac order with gun enabled will not go through until the plane does a gun run. You can make ASF evac afer using AAM if you disable the gun, and more importantly you can make bombers evac after dropping their bombs if you disable the gun.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby chykka » Fri 1 Sep 2017 15:36

Well sometimes guns can get kill confirms in dog fights. Maybe help deal with infantry that sneak around your lines. However at the front the guns not to useful most of the time and Air to ground is an odd situation as many ATGM planes will use the Atgm out at a safe range and to use the gun would usually be suicidal. I like su24's gun for shooting ground targets I think mig 27 has the same one.

Air land you had more aggressive options with planes probablydue to pricing of rocket planes for example. However Radar AA was quite deadly in ALB but you could always play around it or have sead out.
Even Vulcan shot on move for USA I noticed. Only Israel gets that in RD.
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby Shika » Sat 2 Sep 2017 02:14

CAT had a purpose in ALB, its sole purpose was offensive pushes or really long sustain across a large map generally with cities.

There's honestly no purpose for CAT in RD, very few nations do best as a non-thematic deck meaning in general card count is not an issue...and many units where card count is an issue, they're prototypes or do not fall under '85. I think there could be potential for a CAT deck just thinking about it, if you were to play an absolutely 100% infantry game but other than that it's pointless. It's also a big thing now in RD to have artificial chokepoints such as bridges which are horrible for armored pushes. AP capability of infantry is also huge compared to what it was in ALB

There's far too much focus on modern units in RD, losing them is too much of a problem. If I need to spread out thin and cover ground I can do that on a basic thematic deck, but I can't do it forever which usually is irrelevant. If I need to focus on a small area and have support and recon that is a threat I can't do that on a CAT deck.

There's a lot of stuff Eugen antiquated in RD and categorized decks are probably the biggest thing.
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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby molnibalage » Mon 4 Sep 2017 12:57

throwaway wrote:I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The issue is that when using manual evac, a shift-queued evac order with gun enabled will not go through until the plane does a gun run. You can make ASF evac afer using AAM if you disable the gun, and more importantly you can make bombers evac after dropping their bombs if you disable the gun.


Shift-queued for ASF? How and why? For a while I turned off EVAC for strike AC but mostly was a bad idea.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby molnibalage » Mon 4 Sep 2017 13:10

Shika wrote:CAT had a purpose in ALB, its sole purpose was offensive pushes or really long sustain across a large map generally with cities.

Are we speaking here about CAT A/B/C decks?

There's honestly no purpose for CAT in RD, very few nations do best as a non-thematic deck meaning in general card count is not an issue...and many units where card count is an issue, they're prototypes or do not fall under '85. I think there could be potential for a CAT deck just thinking about it, if you were to play an absolutely 100% infantry game but other than that it's pointless. It's also a big thing now in RD to have artificial chokepoints such as bridges which are horrible for armored pushes. AP capability of infantry is also huge compared to what it was in ALB

Sadly most player do not play era games at all and miss more than 2/3 of content of RD...
They just play silly Cat A games with totally non balanced fantasy units...

In era games are qty. which I miss and mentioned above. Nobody will use AGM planes suicidal way when an AGM plane cost 100-150 CP and you have only 2/card while usable 65-90 CP tanks available 2 cards with 8-10/card avail... Suicidal AGM planes and many other things are not issue because nobody have 1/card or 2/card holy unicorn units. Inf/tank balance is also far better. Also the qty. ratio is beter. Game is not about where two Tor protect two tanks and two APCs but rather 1-2 Osas, small qty. of MANPADs and maybe 1-2Strela-1/10 and 1-2 ZSU-23-4 protects half a dozen tanks and many APCs.

Maybe is rude but IMHO the community itself killed RD because members are too dumb for use all options of the game...

Regardless how fucked up the rest of RD I still would play any day if cat B/C games were common.

One of my best RD game ever was when 3v3 team played C cat and only minor nations. Gun vs Gun air combat were common, lots of units, it was very, very good, I felt how would look a part of frontline where non superpowers conforts each other.

Also is much less choke points in RD if you use amphi units. In Cat A you have almost not chane to make amph. pushes because of insane stat values...

In Cat C you can do it because of AP-AV relations and many other things, especially with USSR.

There's far too much focus on modern units in RD, losing them is too much of a problem.

Exactly with many other issues.

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Re: "category" system removal + price range change

Postby QUAD » Thu 7 Sep 2017 08:51

throwaway wrote:Categories are only there for roleplayers, don't see the point of messing with them.

The price suggestion has been around for a while, more with the idea of doubling every price so that there's more space at the jäger level. I don't see the point, some coalitions should have better infantry than others, the goal should not be to make them all equally efficient using super granular pricing.


they can be efficient at different things
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