no US's MRAPs :(

ilias
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no US's MRAPs :(

Postby ilias » Fri 1 Sep 2017 02:47

Just got a think to make Stingers getting on MRAPs and realized what in the game no US's MPAPs,
yes they wasn't used at times the game about,
but now thats feels bit weird, now US army prefers them more than even HMMWVs,
Some quote from Wiki (List of currently active United States military land vehicles):"
Mine-protected vehicles
RG-31 –
RG-33 – 1,735
Cougar – ≈3,500 on order
International MaxxPro – 9,000
BAE Caiman – 2,800 on order
Oshkosh M-ATV – 8,700
Buffalo– 200
JERRV
Husky VMMD
"
Hope it will be considered by some mod developers :)
Thanks for interest
Last edited by ilias on Fri 1 Sep 2017 05:02, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby Half Life Expert » Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:41

There are two very clear and obvious reasons for no MRAPs in Wargame Red Dragon:

1) There are no mines or IEDs represented in the game, so a 'Mine Resistant' vehicle would be of little use. MRAPs wouldn't last a minute when faced with Warsaw Pact based Armored forces.

2) MRAPs were created in response to the IEDs being used in Iraq after the 2003 Invasion. The timeframe of the Wargame series runs from 1975 until 1995, so it would be out of timeframe by at least a decade.

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby ilias » Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:44

Half Life Expert wrote:There are two very clear and obvious reasons for no MRAPs in Wargame Red Dragon:

1) There are no mines or IEDs represented in the game, so a 'Mine Resistant' vehicle would be of little use. MRAPs wouldn't last a minute when faced with Warsaw Pact based Armored forces.

2) MRAPs were created in response to the IEDs being used in Iraq after the 2003 Invasion. The timeframe of the Wargame series runs from 1975 until 1995, so it would be out of timeframe by at least a decade.

1. Point in wargame is that most MRAPs (if not all) is very good protected against light weapons (1 (and posibly 2) level armor in wargame)
_ (i'm just missing that 1|,2 level armor, cheaper than LAV (and not marine :)), fast on road wheeled vehicle in US armory, which as i described shood be there (in some mod about modern time))
2. I pretty clear wrote about time in first post (didn't i ?)
Last edited by ilias on Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby Half Life Expert » Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:51

I didn't notice you acknowledging it being out of timeframe until you pointed it out. My apologies. The apparent statement for a wish for MRAPs appeared to me to be just another poorly thought out request for something that is out of time frame.

In addition to what I said, keep this in mind:

The MRAP program was developed in specific response to IED threats from insurgents in Iraq, and to a lesser extent, Afghanistan. That sort of war is a world away from the type of conflict portrayed in the Wargame series.

MRAPs are great if you are patrolling a hostile province with an enemy that won't confront you directly, but they would be of almost no use if your opponent is a Soviet Tank Brigade or a North Korean Motorized Rifle Regiment. They wouldn't provide any substantive advantage in such a situation over the vehicles that are currently in Wargame. For transporting and protecting Infantry, M113s and M2 Bradleys will fulfill your needs equal to or better than MRAPs.

The US ground forces of today are more equipped to take on Snipers, IEDs and the occasional firefight than conventional land forces. They are not the same forces that the US ended the Cold War and fought the 1991 Gulf War with.

Additionally, the philosophy behind the MRAP is to keep the crew alive, not nessicarily the vehicle itself. In Wargame, it is the vehicle that matters.
Last edited by Half Life Expert on Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby ilias » Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:55

Half Life Expert wrote:I didn't notice you acknowledging it being out of timeframe until you pointed it out. My apologies. The apparent statement for a wish for MRAPs appeared to me to be just another poorly thought out request for something that is out of time frame.

In addition to what I said, keep this in mind:

The MRAP program was developed in specific response to IED threats from insurgents in Iraq, and to a lesser extent, Afghanistan. That sort of war is a world away from the type of conflict portrayed in the Wargame series.

MRAPs are great if you are patrolling a hostile province with an enemy that won't confront you directly, but they would be of almost no use if your opponent is a Soviet Tank Brigade or a North Korean Motorized Rifle Regiment. They wouldn't provide any substantive advantage in such a situation over the vehicles that are currently in Wargame. For transporting and protecting Infantry, M113s and M2 Bradleys will fulfill your needs equal to or better than MRAPs.

The US ground forces of today are more equipped to take on Snipers, IEDs and the occasional firefight than conventional land forces. They are not the same forces that the US ended the Cold War and fought the 1991 Gulf War with.

Yep, all correct, just as i said (sorry: edited the 1st answer) missing protected against inf. firearm weapon, faster then: M113,cheaper then M2; not marine transport :)
Last edited by ilias on Fri 1 Sep 2017 04:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby Half Life Expert » Fri 1 Sep 2017 03:58

Well yes, those were the limitations of the US Army at the time, and therefore that is what you will just have to work with.

The US Didn't really have a parallel to the Soviet BTR series of wheeled vehicles. I think the reason for this was that the Soviet Army was preparing for attack, and the BTR was to make use of the West German Autobahns in rapid advances.

The US equipment was somewhat more defensive in nature, preferring rough terrain capabilities over pure speed.

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby ilias » Fri 1 Sep 2017 04:02

Half Life Expert wrote:Well yes, those were the limitations of the US Army at the time, and therefore that is what you will just have to work with.

The US Didn't really have a parallel to the Soviet BTR series of wheeled vehicles. I think the reason for this was that the Soviet Army was preparing for attack, and the BTR was to make use of the West German Autobahns in rapid advances.

The US equipment was somewhat more defensive in nature, preferring rough terrain capabilities over pure speed.

Yep, agree, sounds like possible reason

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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby Sleksa » Fri 1 Sep 2017 09:23

Half Life Expert wrote:The US Didn't really have a parallel to the Soviet BTR series of wheeled vehicles.


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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 1 Sep 2017 10:50

If you're looking for a modern US 10 point wheeled transport, you need look no further than the base Stryker. 3/1/1/1 armour so it's like an AMX-VTT, but on wheels!

I'm pretty sure that the Stryker TES with the applique armour packages would have to go to 3/3/3/1 armour and 15 points as a result, which would still be okay but only because the 10 point version is superb. On the other hand, you could fit this variant with a Mk.19 in the RCWS and then you're cooking with charcoal :lol:.

Additionally, and this is no small point, a Stryker can be represented by a Bison model if you squint rather a lot. Most MRAPs, on the other hand, look quite unique and would be more difficult to find a model for in game.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: no US's MRAPs :(

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 1 Sep 2017 11:00

Surely you jest, 3/1/1/1 wheeled would cost 15 pts minimum. It is an extremely strong combination.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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