Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

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FrangibleCover
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 20 Oct 2017 01:37

Fade2Gray wrote:We really do need to organize some team games of Nerdfish and his buddies against some major conquest players. It will be interesting to see how well the destru crew does against the conquest crew in both normal game modes.

Is there any point whatsoever in demonstrating that the Conquest Pros can win at conquest? Just set up some 'normal' Destruction games, watch the Destruction players get rolled and then come back. Unfortunately I think most of our high level conquest community is tied up in a tourney this weekend but I'm sure once the second tier are knocked out on Friday/Saturday we could get a couple of them together.
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby Nerdfish » Fri 20 Oct 2017 01:48

FrangibleCover wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:We really do need to organize some team games of Nerdfish and his buddies against some major conquest players. It will be interesting to see how well the destru crew does against the conquest crew in both normal game modes.

Is there any point whatsoever in demonstrating that the Conquest Pros can win at conquest? Just set up some 'normal' Destruction games, watch the Destruction players get rolled and then come back. Unfortunately I think most of our high level conquest community is tied up in a tourney this weekend but I'm sure once the second tier are knocked out on Friday/Saturday we could get a couple of them together.


A normal destruction, That'd mean 1000 start, 2000 to win, 40 mins 1 v 1.
Sure bring it.

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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 20 Oct 2017 03:00

FrangibleCover wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:We really do need to organize some team games of Nerdfish and his buddies against some major conquest players. It will be interesting to see how well the destru crew does against the conquest crew in both normal game modes.

Is there any point whatsoever in demonstrating that the Conquest Pros can win at conquest? Just set up some 'normal' Destruction games, watch the Destruction players get rolled and then come back. Unfortunately I think most of our high level conquest community is tied up in a tourney this weekend but I'm sure once the second tier are knocked out on Friday/Saturday we could get a couple of them together.

There's multiple reasons. First, to see just how they perform at conquest(it is needed as a baseline to see just how valid his claims are about it), and then to see how they do at their own preferred game mode. Considering he's dodged out before and just now, I have no doubt that he will continue to do so. I can't say I'm surprised that he will not accept a challenge at conquest, at all.

If he wants to play a conquest game against me and then a destruction game, I'm all for it. If he wants to hide in his safe space with lies and buddies, then he's free to do so.
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby another505 » Fri 20 Oct 2017 04:24

Fade2Gray wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:We really do need to organize some team games of Nerdfish and his buddies against some major conquest players. It will be interesting to see how well the destru crew does against the conquest crew in both normal game modes.

Is there any point whatsoever in demonstrating that the Conquest Pros can win at conquest? Just set up some 'normal' Destruction games, watch the Destruction players get rolled and then come back. Unfortunately I think most of our high level conquest community is tied up in a tourney this weekend but I'm sure once the second tier are knocked out on Friday/Saturday we could get a couple of them together.

There's multiple reasons. First, to see just how they perform at conquest(it is needed as a baseline to see just how valid his claims are about it), and then to see how they do at their own preferred game mode. Considering he's dodged out before and just now, I have no doubt that he will continue to do so. I can't say I'm surprised that he will not accept a challenge at conquest, at all.

If he wants to play a conquest game against me and then a destruction game, I'm all for it. If he wants to hide in his safe space with lies and buddies, then he's free to do so.

im in, depending on time

though, i havent play for like 3 months lol
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 20 Oct 2017 05:25

another505 wrote:though, i havent play for like 3 months lol

I know, I've missed you and your glorious VDV spam so much. :(
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby KattiValk » Fri 20 Oct 2017 15:26

Nerdfish wrote:If you are the guy with the smerch, if you don't have contact with the enemy, where do you know to arty ?
The best positions for an arty battle are:
- You can see them and they can't see you
- You are moving but they are not.
There are no safe areas. if you put things behind cover there is a chance an infiltrating units will see them. And they will be dead.
The mobile gameplay are the commando teams sneaking around the map. and they often kill each other without air or arty intervention.
Destruction become static when the map is too small for flanking and infiltration. But those maps basically force static play.
There's a difference between basic contact and substantial contact. Scooting expendables around to bait fire is not substantial contact. That is dedicating to a push with smoke and suppression. In Destruction any contact is simply to figure out where the enemy is and move to engage it with a counter, whereas Conquest is to take the ground the enemy is standing on. Also worth mentioning Conquest still has plenty of the contact you see in Destruction in the lulls between dedicated assaults.

You overstate how effective infiltration is. Beyond CV sniping and air lane spotting, it's really easy to see a unit in cover is spotted. Sure, not all areas have that sort of thing, but rarely do you see popular exposed arty scooch areas that are in range of easy recon. Besides, playing guess the hot spot is really not that hard.

Attacking also happens in dest, but the goal is to kill enemy units or force them to camp and then pull out. I often tell newbies in 10 v 10 to attack and retreat, and not camp out in one place and be sitting ducks for the firestorm. Being forced to stay in a defensive position is really bad. Artillery is in general much more effective against someone defending since you can guess all the places to camp, if they are attacking it's much harder. To lead shots so that they land on enemy exactly as they run into your defending units take phenomenal luck.
Mortars are so incredibly easy in RD that landing hits on advancing infantry is child's play. Sure, hitting with heavier stuff isn't as easy, but it's still doable (both BUs were on the move). Besides, I'm sure you know how to fight a rolling retreat with staggered killboxes right? Defending is easy. It's attacking that's difficult.

Fade2Gray wrote:I know, I've missed you and your glorious VDV spam so much. :(
Heyyyyy what about me? Am I not special? :x

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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby Steamfunk » Fri 20 Oct 2017 17:32

What is the proposal - a no income conquest tournament, no income vs med points conquest or conquest vs destruction?

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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby another505 » Fri 20 Oct 2017 20:14

Fade2Gray wrote:
another505 wrote:though, i havent play for like 3 months lol

I know, I've missed you and your glorious VDV spam so much. :(

It will come back like a rising phoenix :D

nerdfish, what time? preferably next sunday afternoon/night
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:29

another505 wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
another505 wrote:though, i havent play for like 3 months lol

I know, I've missed you and your glorious VDV spam so much. :(

It will come back like a rising phoenix :D

nerdfish, what time? preferably next sunday afternoon/night

He did say he was going to test a lot this weekend, before suddenly shifting it and playing against buddies/randos who don't know how to play. Curious that.

KattiValk wrote:Heyyyyy what about me? Am I not special? :x

You are correct. At least it looks like you gave Chief a good time though. Even had Chief calling out to god and all that, my goodness SEDMAN. How naughty. :mrgreen:
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Re: Conquest without income - Best of both worlds

Postby Nerdfish » Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:50

Will start hosting no income Conquest starting 00:00 on Sunday London Time.

Mortars are so incredibly easy in RD that landing hits on advancing infantry is child's play. Sure, hitting with heavier stuff isn't as easy, but it's still doable (both BUs were on the move). Besides, I'm sure you know how to fight a rolling retreat with staggered killboxes right? Defending is easy. It's attacking that's difficult.


Two point to be made there, once you smoke and shoot your suppressive rocket volley, the best practice is drive infantry forward in wheeled transports at the enemy line and unload just before they enter infantry engagement range. this make it difficult for mortar to suppress them while underway.

The second point is that a rolling retreat is still a mobile tactic. It's mobile in the backward direction. you pull part of your line back so as the enemy advances, they get flanked by other parts. This is not static "sitzkrieg" you are talking about. And presumably at some point you'd want to roll back to avoid permanent income loss, and that is more moving.

We just disagree on the definition of maneuvering. by your definition static is everything that does not lead to permanent ground gain. I maintain that any movement that result to an advantage is a tactical maneuver, even if it's as simple as moving your Buks after firing them.

If a game is static or not has nothing to do with if it's easier to defend or attack. Attacking is easier if the attacker has over 3 times the force value of defenders, otherwise it's easier for defend. in WG attacking with twice the force advantage is doable.

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