Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

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Fade2Gray
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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby Fade2Gray » Mon 30 Oct 2017 14:58

FrangibleCover wrote:What if any time you surrender you have to play the next game in Destruction mode?

Even better yet, conquest with medium income.

PatrickT wrote:How is that a punishment? French decks are quite good.

You honestly expect him to put some serious thought into anything he posts, other than to troll for teh LuLz? There's a reason he got laughed off the Paradox forums, and why he's ignoring everyone who calls him out for his bullshit.

Shrike wrote:If i know the tide cant be turned or my team lacks cohesion, then I want out because its just a waste of time. Believe me, i tried the "man up and try and turn the tides because me and my anecdotal friends can win games by using our units in a specific way". No sane commander would have his forces get wasted in some unwinnable battle anyway.

Yeah, as I don't pull with a set team of good players, I just roll into random games by myself, I'm rolling the dice when it comes to seeing how good my team is. Especially when I'm facing off against another team, if I see someone who is sending in T-80Bs, BMP-2s, and Strela2s up the mid on Meme Ridge?

Yeah no, I'm bailing. Playing with obvious trash players against a team of good players is not worth my time.
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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby urogard » Mon 30 Oct 2017 15:10

Shrike wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:Sounds like a wonderful way to make things even worse for those who are getting pubstomped.

^ this

not this, if you punish the first 2 leavers of any game then you improve gameplay overall.

since people will think twice about using some shitty ass opening which can get shut down by 1 superheavy, or they will not leave the game because they decided to be stupid and suicide their tomcat.

which is the two most common reasons for leaving.
so by giving instant punishment for the first leaver or two is a must and you solve a major problem of early/first leaders.
and it's not a justification if your team is slowly but surely losing because it still means the game isn't a one sided steamroll, so suck it up and see if the enemy doesn't become overconfident.

punishing any player for leaving if the number of players is equal on each side is a beneficial system overall even at the expense of a few individual games "comfort".
when you're losing it is a wonderful time to try something new you're not willing to risk trying in a regular game. those are the moments bad players should be forced to stay so that they can learn to get better.

90% of the times I learned how to get better was when I failed hard and had to recover from a bad position, or had to fight vs 2-3 opponents solo.
but instead most people surrender without bothering to learn from their mistakes, which prevents them from realizing that some of their strategies are pure shit

you learn hardly anything from a game that goes well, since you can't be certain if your strategy was that good or your opponent was just shit. but if your opponent has an advantage and you manage to hold the ground then you know that that strategy was objectively effective.

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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby Fade2Gray » Mon 30 Oct 2017 17:08

urogard wrote:
Spoiler : :
not this, if you punish the first 2 leavers of any game then you improve gameplay overall.

since people will think twice about using some shitty ass opening which can get shut down by 1 superheavy, or they will not leave the game because they decided to be stupid and suicide their tomcat.

which is the two most common reasons for leaving.
so by giving instant punishment for the first leaver or two is a must and you solve a major problem of early/first leaders.
and it's not a justification if your team is slowly but surely losing because it still means the game isn't a one sided steamroll, so suck it up and see if the enemy doesn't become overconfident.

punishing any player for leaving if the number of players is equal on each side is a beneficial system overall even at the expense of a few individual games "comfort".
when you're losing it is a wonderful time to try something new you're not willing to risk trying in a regular game. those are the moments bad players should be forced to stay so that they can learn to get better.

90% of the times I learned how to get better was when I failed hard and had to recover from a bad position, or had to fight vs 2-3 opponents solo.
but instead most people surrender without bothering to learn from their mistakes, which prevents them from realizing that some of their strategies are pure shit

you learn hardly anything from a game that goes well, since you can't be certain if your strategy was that good or your opponent was just shit. but if your opponent has an advantage and you manage to hold the ground then you know that that strategy was objectively effective.

That is some serious wishful thinking. So in order to encounter bad players to "git gud" you are going to make it even harder for them when they rage quit? Do you honestly think that they will even bother to come back at all when they get hit with this? This sounds like it is going to do nothing but drive people away. If someone wants to get better, they'll do what I did. What did I do? Pester better players, ask for advice, etc etc. A couple people actually mentored me as well. All this without needing some silly punishment thrown at me.

I foresee this encouraging people to throw the game even harder when they screw up. Oh, I got stupid and lost my opening forces? Might as well fast move EVERYTHING at the enemy now. This way maybe my teammates will quit first and I don't get punished! Also, in the case of blatant pubstomps, why on earth should those who bail be punished for it? I have some troll on my team, who may well even be TKing, and I'm going to get punished for leaving it? Really?

If you want to get better, come out of your safe space little shell and play with better people. Get into game modes that encourage higher skill and more aggression, like conquest.
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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby urogard » Fri 3 Nov 2017 15:41

Fade2Gray wrote:Also, in the case of blatant pubstomps, why on earth should those who bail be punished for it?

Because if half your games get ruined because one side of the map bailed, well those people who bail deserve punishment.

Go ahead and guess why every single game where you cannot join in the middle of a round gives out punishment for people who leave by placing them into low-priority queue or outright timed bans preventing them from playing for a while.
Hint, it's not because of pubstomps because even in those games, most of the games one side ends up having a significant advantage less than 10 mins into the game.

The only time leaving should not incur any punishment if the game ends within a short moment (100-200 secs max).
If you think it's about to end, but then it actually ends up dragging on, then tough titties, you deserve that timed ban you just got.
Last edited by urogard on Fri 3 Nov 2017 15:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby urogard » Fri 3 Nov 2017 15:41

Fade2Gray wrote:Oh, I got stupid and lost my opening forces? Might as well fast move EVERYTHING at the enemy now.

By your own admission you have nothing left, so what are you intending to move?
And the issue is moot, since by doing that you'll get definitely reported by the awesome ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI and your punishment will be much worse.

Fade2Gray wrote:I have some troll on my team, who may well even be TKing, and I'm going to get punished for leaving it? Really?

Of course, if you don't like what your teammate did, use the same ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI to report that troll.

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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 3 Nov 2017 17:07

urogard wrote:The only time leaving should not incur any punishment if the game ends within a short moment (100-200 secs max).

There's a massive flaw in your design. So pretty much if I see someone take a garbage opener, I can bail without a problem.

By your own admission you have nothing left, so what are you intending to move?

...

Do you play with no income or something? O_o
And the issue is moot, since by doing that you'll get definitely reported by the awesome ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI and your punishment will be much worse.

Where is this amazing reporting mechanism that you speak of?

don't like what your teammate did, use the same ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI to report that troll.

Are we playing the same game? Or is this some seriously wishful thinking on your behalf?
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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby urogard » Fri 3 Nov 2017 23:55

Fade2Gray wrote:
And the issue is moot, since by doing that you'll get definitely reported by the awesome ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI and your punishment will be much worse.

Where is this amazing reporting mechanism that you speak of?

don't like what your teammate did, use the same ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI to report that troll.

Are we playing the same game? Or is this some seriously wishful thinking on your behalf?

Did you even notice WG4 in the title?

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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 4 Nov 2017 14:58

urogard wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
And the issue is moot, since by doing that you'll get definitely reported by the awesome ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI and your punishment will be much worse.

Where is this amazing reporting mechanism that you speak of?

don't like what your teammate did, use the same ingame reporting mechanism that EUG built into wargame UI to report that troll.

Are we playing the same game? Or is this some seriously wishful thinking on your behalf?

Did you even notice WG4 in the title?

So...

wishful thinking it is then, got it. I'm sure EUGEN will definitely jump all over this and such a suggestion will not be abused like mad by endless amounts of salty players who report everyone for the most petty of things.

I also want a pony with WG4. Ponys will be OP as fuck. NERF PONIES NEOW!
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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby integ3r » Sat 4 Nov 2017 15:52

The best anti-surrender mechanic is a good matchmaker. People generally don't quit out of even matches.

If you stomp a team of randoms, guess what: they'll quit.
"How do into gaem of war? How 2 git gud?":
Spoiler : :

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Re: Anti-Surrendering Rules for WG 4

Postby urogard » Sat 4 Nov 2017 21:11

Fade2Gray wrote:wishful thinking it is then, got it. I'm sure EUGEN will definitely jump all over this and such a suggestion will not be abused like mad by endless amounts of salty players who report everyone for the most petty of things.

If they chose not to implement something that has been present in every single online round-based game released after 2012 then that's going to be their problem.

If however you don't understand why every single online round-based game released after 2012 has implemented a system to punish leavers and trolls nor understand why these systems are necessary nor how they work then I fail to understand why you're even posting in this thread in the first place.
People posting their opinions about things they have no actual clue about is pretty detrimental to discussions in general. I can link you to a few places if you want to read up on this topic.

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