The Time has come for a Community Patch

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NATO General
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby NATO General » Sat 25 Nov 2017 20:41

Markenzwieback wrote:
NATO General wrote:Hello!
Spoiler : :
I’m an old player of the Wargame series, I played since European escalation and consider this game one of the best RTS I played so far.
With near 120 decks done, 50/50 NATO PACT with any nation: I’ve done deck: even for nation not in the game (Iran, Albania, Vietnam, Switzerland…), I play almost all nation PACT or NATO.
Maybe, my 300+ hours won’t impress anyone but, anyway, back to the point.
I’ve been watching the reddit and this forum for a long time, no need to say I was sad to see the state of the game. But I was pretty happy to see some people are thinking for community patch, so maybe I can give some ideas.

That one of the first thing that came to my mind (with obviously the DLC rework)
Transport truck were indeed broken in Airland battle being a 1-point fast transport, permitting to flood cities with infantry like soviet in Stalingrad.
Now in red dragon they cost 5 and are only 1 card available for either Recon of Command infantry.

We got plenty of 5 point tracked APC that are slower and minimum 10-point wheeled APC that are faster but cost more, Motorized deck doesn’t have any very low-cost transport.

So, I was thinking we can give a chance to transport trucks:
-It will give access to motorized deck for some nation.
-Faster than 5 point tracked APC but unarmed and no Armor.
-Transports trucks for every infantry unit: 7 cards available (enough to go full trucks in a danish motorized deck if someone wanted)
-More possibilities/diversity of motorized deck with cheap 5-point transport truck and 10-point armoured transport.
-Possibilities to transport Command infantry AND recon infantry in truck
-Fast cheap transport for support units like MANPAD, ATGM, FIST Team (No more need of a )

So the TL;DR basically is: Bring back truck transports for all infantry?



to be brief, yes.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 25 Nov 2017 20:51

XanderTuron wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:
XanderTuron wrote:Hm, I wonder what other things did Canada not procure in the time frame?

Off of the top of my head, there is the Chimera, the EF-101B Electric Voodoo, which while operated by Canada for testing purposes, was never really a major thing, the C15 LRSW (McMillan TAC-50) while operated by Canada did not enter service until the very late '90s. The Leopard 1A5 turrets that were used to upgrade the Leopard C1 to the Leopard C2 were purchased in 1994/95, but the tank itself did not enter service until 1999/2000. The Canadian Forces were doing testing with MEXAS armour kits in 1995/1996 but these were fitted to Leopard C1s.

Shall I list all of the things that Yugoslavia has in game that were not procured in time frame?


Hm, you can rename Canada to "Free ADATS to a good home", it seems.

Actually, go right ahead. I am all for stripping everybody of protos and memes with a fixed late Cold war deadline (1989-1991). Let's see what happens.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby another505 » Sun 26 Nov 2017 03:59

keldon wrote:
another505 wrote:ztz-96 is indeed budget, so its just barely better than ztz-85-3. I want to see RD with multiple high end AP tanks instead of super heavies which are so common.


The nacked ZTZ-96 has worse armor than 85-III, all depending on how much around 520mm is translated into the game. The ERA version is way OOTF, so i wouldn't call it better.

Markenzwieback wrote:RD changes


Good stuff, i'll allow it.


ZTZ-98 then? How much fav would it put it?
In any case, i think RD having high AP efficiency, high quantity, mediocre accuracy and fav, would be nice
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Yakhont » Sun 26 Nov 2017 07:49

Ok, everyone take a deep breath. Game balance in Wargame is complicated by 1) Real life accuracy and 2) Game engine abstractions

Over the years those of you who have been around know that it is difficult to reconcile the 2 to create balance.
As a starting point dont start asking for 1) Reroles, 2) Mechanics changes. Instead ask yourself; what is the fewest number of changes I can make to the game to make it more enjoyable?

Just changing the price would be a good start

My list would be
1) Removal of DLC nations price advatage eg Israeli, Finn and Yugo high DPS APCs
2) Removal of Medium stealth from Recon vehicles with anything bigger than an MG, eg autocannon, tank cannon
3)Finn MiG gets big price increase or weapon swap

Now this is a starting point.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby keldon » Sun 26 Nov 2017 14:19

another505 wrote:ZTZ-98 then? How much fav would it put it?
In any case, i think RD having high AP efficiency, high quantity, mediocre accuracy and fav, would be nice


I have no objection about the theme, although everything is a bit relative. For example ACC can be capped for RD toptier tanks at 60%, reasoning would be the FCS is still based in the Marconi stuff. As for a better tank the WZ123 stage 1994 would fit perfectely, 600mm FAV and the option to have that manpad station as a gimmick. The "ZTZ-98" is really WZ123 Batch 9910, the designation "ZTZ" is only handed out to finalized unit.

However as Yahkont said we need to take a breath, the DLC stuff should be looked at first.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Sun 26 Nov 2017 14:25

keldon wrote:However as Yahkont said we need to take a breath, the DLC stuff should be looked at first.

I'd agree to that. And even than we should focus on minor changes to not overload the game like previous mods did. The goal should be to fix what Eugen should have fixed balance-wise post-DLC release.

Regarding a Chinese tank: Instead of adding entirely new vehicles, we should think about slightly buffing existing ones. An increase to 23AP for the ZTZ-85-III could be one of those smaller steps.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby XanderTuron » Sun 26 Nov 2017 19:01

Markenzwieback wrote:
keldon wrote:However as Yahkont said we need to take a breath, the DLC stuff should be looked at first.

I'd agree to that. And even than we should focus on minor changes to not overload the game like previous mods did. The goal should be to fix what Eugen should have fixed balance-wise post-DLC release.


Well, we would probably need a list of units that are considered to over perform for their price (maybe some that under perform as well?) with some sort of general community consensus if possible, and then there would have to be a consensus on what would need to be done to bring these units back in line without nerfing/rebalancing these units into uselessness.
My mouth is moving, but nothing relevant is coming out. Also I cannot guarantee that my research is perfect or even remotely accurate.

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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby another505 » Sun 26 Nov 2017 23:56

keldon wrote:
another505 wrote:ZTZ-98 then? How much fav would it put it?
In any case, i think RD having high AP efficiency, high quantity, mediocre accuracy and fav, would be nice


I have no objection about the theme, although everything is a bit relative. For example ACC can be capped for RD toptier tanks at 60%, reasoning would be the FCS is still based in the Marconi stuff. As for a better tank the WZ123 stage 1994 would fit perfectely, 600mm FAV and the option to have that manpad station as a gimmick. The "ZTZ-98" is really WZ123 Batch 9910, the designation "ZTZ" is only handed out to finalized unit.

However as Yahkont said we need to take a breath, the DLC stuff should be looked at first.

I would like RD top tier tanks like this
T90s to Pokpung-ho, 17FAV, 55 accuracy, 20 stabs, 23 AP. 8 rof Somewhere like 5 per card.
ZTZ-85-3 8rof ,60 accuracy, 4 per card
WZ 123 23AP, 60 accuracy 8 rof 20fav, manpads and refleks, 3 per card.

About Mark's change to Israel, one thing i want to point out the F-4 LGB can't carry 1 bomb only, would it make weight unbalance according to xeno. I prefer it be 1 per card of 1 card with 2 1000kg bombs

also, screw the atacms, some thinks its dumb and op, some thinks its dumb and weak as crap
how about we just make it regular MLRS?
and the patriot too... give usa better asf, or F-15d and Fa18c with mraam or something than patriot.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Mon 27 Nov 2017 00:02

another505 wrote:WZ 123 23AP, 60 accuracy 8 rof 20fav, manpads and refleks, 3 per card.

High-end MANPAD on a high-end tank? I'd rather not move into that territory.

another505 wrote:i want to point out the F-4 LGB can't carry 1 bomb only, would it make weight unbalance

Chinese MiG-21 with 1000kg bomb?
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby another505 » Mon 27 Nov 2017 00:09

Markenzwieback wrote:
another505 wrote:WZ 123 23AP, 60 accuracy 8 rof 20fav, manpads and refleks, 3 per card.

High-end MANPAD on a high-end tank? I'd rather not move into that territory.

another505 wrote:i want to point out the F-4 LGB can't carry 1 bomb only, would it make weight unbalance

Chinese MiG-21 with 1000kg bomb?



Except chinese Mig-21 carry it centerline,(irl) and the f-4, xeno knows more, carries it on the wing.

Eh, qw-1 is not that high end, (compare to freaking mistral and stinger c) i dont think it would be a problem. especially if it has two shots only.
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