The Time has come for a Community Patch

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another505
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby another505 » Thu 7 Dec 2017 06:34

Narcissistic Black wrote:
another505 wrote:There will never be a consensus on what it should be, how the units are balanced and so on.
You can make a nice price balance mod but i dont think i will play it much cause it is just the same game...

faustmann mod made teh game different, so it felt exciting. I liked it, in fact, i wish it goes further in adding new units


There are so many mods that added new concepts and units did you even play them?

No sadly, it seems there are just no one playing them. I tried ural mod, it was nice but died off soon
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Narcissistic Black » Thu 7 Dec 2017 06:40

another505 wrote:No sadly, it seems there are just no one playing them. I tried ural mod, it was nice but died off soon


Yeah that seems to be the issue with mods, they die off from lack of players.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Yakhont » Fri 8 Dec 2017 20:38

I dont really want to play a new game though; I just want the current game to be balanced along with what I feel are very justified concerns about the DLC Nations and some other smaller issues.

Wargame already has a small community, and none of the mods really sustain for long. I hope to keep playing it but if the multiplayer aspect doesnt remain because of balance issues then it is a bigger problem.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby urogard » Fri 8 Dec 2017 22:52

Yakhont wrote:I dont really want to play a new game though; I just want the current game to be balanced along with what I feel are very justified concerns about the DLC Nations and some other smaller issues.

That's why it has to be a strictly balance patch only.
No new units, no re-rolls. At most give an extra card here or there but that's it.

All those other "grand" mods which re-rolled unit lines, introduced new units or even screwed around with coalitions, that went too far and would make it hard to find wide acceptance.

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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby KattiValk » Sat 9 Dec 2017 00:58

urogard wrote:That's why it has to be a strictly balance patch only.
No new units, no re-rolls. At most give an extra card here or there but that's it.

All those other "grand" mods which re-rolled unit lines, introduced new units or even screwed around with coalitions, that went too far and would make it hard to find wide acceptance.
I'd disagree that it should be balance only. The boundary of this patch is not adding anything radical (ie: Maglan). For instance, a US BrADATS can be created with existing models and doesn't broach new ground.

If this is a community patch, we have the luxury of public playtesting for as long as we deem fit, so a decent balance can be achievable with new units in mind in one patch IMO.

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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Sat 9 Dec 2017 01:05

While I agree that there are no limits in future community creativity, the FIRST update should focus on balancing and minimal additional changes. After we got a working and accepted balance going, we can discuss stuff like removingNORAD and giving the US Bradley ADATS and other fun toys it should have received already. Or adding new coalitions. Or other fun stuff.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby urogard » Sat 9 Dec 2017 10:56

KattiValk wrote:
urogard wrote:That's why it has to be a strictly balance patch only.
No new units, no re-rolls. At most give an extra card here or there but that's it.

All those other "grand" mods which re-rolled unit lines, introduced new units or even screwed around with coalitions, that went too far and would make it hard to find wide acceptance.
I'd disagree that it should be balance only. The boundary of this patch is not adding anything radical (ie: Maglan). For instance, a US BrADATS can be created with existing models and doesn't broach new ground.

If this is a community patch, we have the luxury of public playtesting for as long as we deem fit, so a decent balance can be achievable with new units in mind in one patch IMO.

The problem with new units is in many cases (esp with respect to "mostly agreed that should have been included right from release") is that new players would feel that it needs too much effort to get into it to realize which newly created units they are likely to encounter etc. and if they switch to vanilla which units will again disappear.

Putting it in other words:
This should be a comprehensive balance patch, but it shouldn't DLC scope equivalent.

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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby Sleksa » Sat 9 Dec 2017 14:44

KattiValk wrote:
urogard wrote:That's why it has to be a strictly balance patch only.
No new units, no re-rolls. At most give an extra card here or there but that's it.

All those other "grand" mods which re-rolled unit lines, introduced new units or even screwed around with coalitions, that went too far and would make it hard to find wide acceptance.
I'd disagree that it should be balance only. The boundary of this patch is not adding anything radical (ie: Maglan). For instance, a US BrADATS can be created with existing models and doesn't broach new ground.

If this is a community patch, we have the luxury of public playtesting for as long as we deem fit, so a decent balance can be achievable with new units in mind in one patch IMO.


The problem with adding units for the sake of adding units is that everyone wants a piece of the pie. The US get their adats-bradley and suddenly the french are asking for their VT-1 missile roland (the same as used by ito 90) and spaag leclerc protos, the russians start asking for their mid 90's aa concepts and all the other usual stuff, the germans bring out their tiny violin cd and start the old speech about the eurofighters and pzh2000s and everyone else comes out of the woodwork with similiar things with no disregard whether the item is really needed for the coalition or not.

This was essentially already seen in every single community mod so far including the faustmann balance mod, and at the end of the day it never really balanced or improved the gameplay but merely changed it.

For a community patch the approach of change through smallest possible impact should be used because it minimizes the effect the changes have to the overall balance. In other words we already have a "power baseline" with the non-dlc coalitions that are viable, and instead of moving everyone to the new dlc power levels which'd inevitably create problems of its own (see faustmann and every other mod ever made to wg), we should instead be looking to equalize things.

Like with the case of Finland/Finpol we could either do like ~5 minimal changes in the style of upping the cost of the XA-KT, removing it as a jaakari transport option, removing the ripple firing from the mig, standardizing the jaakari kvkk dps and so on to make them balanced in comparison to other coalitions, or we can go f*** around with every other coalition trying to bring them to the level of finpol/yugo with hundreds of changes across every coalition, nation and decktype imaginable.
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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby throwaway » Sat 9 Dec 2017 16:44

The discussion in the past few posts is premised on a model where the community installs ural/faustmann/some future mod, tries it and then consciously goes back to vanilla because they disagree with the changes. I don't think that's how it goes. Rather, the majority doesn't even try the mod, so like it or not those who do try it end up coming back to vanilla for lack of players.

Same deal as the SD forums. Balance and to a lesser extent mechanics are interesting so everyone talks about that as if it were the main problem.

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Re: The Time has come for a Community Patch

Postby urogard » Sat 9 Dec 2017 22:57

throwaway wrote:The discussion in the past few posts is premised on a model where the community installs ural/faustmann/some future mod, tries it and then consciously goes back to vanilla because they disagree with the changes. I don't think that's how it goes. Rather, the majority doesn't even try the mod, so like it or not those who do try it end up coming back to vanilla for lack of players.

The fact the game nor the servers have ZERO mod support does not help much either.

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