Helicopter ECM help

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Narcissistic Black
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Helicopter ECM help

Postby Narcissistic Black » Wed 3 Jan 2018 07:19

Hello guys I've been trying to build a list on IF helicopters in Wargame had ECM Values what they could look like and I'm finding hard to find accurate info the Helicopters and wondered if you guys could with your fast military knowledge help? End goal in mind was to see if It was something I wanted to add into my mod.

I don't really have a scale to go off of so as I have not a slightest clue on how this should look to make a scale, So I guess just knowledge of what helicopters equipped what countermeasures and when they started to do it.

Things to note anything requiring the helicopter to carry a jammer pod on a hard point/pylon shouldn't be mentioned I'm looking for information like AN/ALQ-144 type jammers - ( here is a pic of an Apache with an AN/ALQ-144)
Image

Flare/Chaff launchers - (here is a pic of a I think a soviet soldier either equipping or removing a flare dispenser - there might also be a AN/ALQ-144 equivalent type jammer behind the rotor.. I don't know much about this stuff)
Image

Passive Infrared Counter Measure
I'd post another picture... but I have no idea what a Passive Infrared Counter Measure is or does... I assume it's always on or works without user input maybe something that reduces heat signature?

Anyways, any help would be nice.
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Sireyn
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Sireyn » Wed 3 Jan 2018 10:05

After searching for examples of "Passive Infrared Counter Measure", it seems the term is nonspecific. Examples include "Suppression of Aircraft Emissions", "Missile Warning", and the use of special absorbent and reflective materials. This is closer to stealth than it is countermeasures, at least in the sense you are applying it your topic.

What I used to define the concept of "Passive Countermeasures"
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2002/pdf/army/2002SIIRCM-ATIRCM.pdf

Engine exhaust/heat suppression (4:24 - 4:48)
https://youtu.be/LsVxlvtvMxk?t=4m24s

Displays the concept of IR masking materials
Image

Interesting PDF on the topic
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=26&ved=0ahUKEwiChLuJorvYAhUE7SYKHSI0BcEQFgihATAZ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtic.mil%2Fget-tr-doc%2Fpdf%3FAD%3DADA566304&usg=AOvVaw0rws2zx5XX3-edKKH91h6d

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HrcAk47
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 3 Jan 2018 13:30

IR jammer on Mi-24 is SOEP Lipa (СОЭП Липа). In service from 1982, very common.

Yugo had domestic flare/chaff launchers for Gazelles and Mi-8.

As for passive, those would be engine exhaust coolers. First seen on Mi-24Ds sent to Afghanistan, and then on everything newer.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Narcissistic Black » Thu 4 Jan 2018 00:14

HrcAk47 wrote:IR jammer on Mi-24 is SOEP Lipa (СОЭП Липа). In service from 1982, very common.


Yugo had domestic flare/chaff launchers for Gazelles and Mi-8.

As for passive, those would be engine exhaust coolers. First seen on Mi-24Ds sent to Afghanistan, and then on everything newer.


Do you know what year Yugo put those on their helicopters because I can't find a picture of a Gazelle using flares for any country and I'm sure Mi-8 have flares but a year would be nice.


@sireyn

Thanks for information.
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby KattiValk » Thu 4 Jan 2018 01:02

We've discussed ECM values for helos before somewhere. IIRC, Lipa equipped helos with flares earned 20% ECM and bog standard flares gave a flat 10%. I forgot what the most was, but it was given to Western gunships (and Havoc I think? It was a while ago) being either 30 or 40%.

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another505
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby another505 » Thu 4 Jan 2018 04:05

Image

I know its very ootf, but i just love Ka-52 huge ass jammer on the right, also add with Vitebesk jammer
Image
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby XanderTuron » Thu 4 Jan 2018 07:46

another505 wrote:Image

I know its very ootf, but i just love Ka-52 huge ass jammer on the right, also add with Vitebesk jammer

KA-52 is already OOTF, so lets just replace the SEAD missiles on it with jammer pods for shits and giggles.
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby chykka » Thu 4 Jan 2018 09:28

You guys would make a mess with the engine given the chance to do it :lol: Or at least pushing the limits. Isn't ecm just a flat modifier anyway.
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Narcissistic Black » Thu 4 Jan 2018 11:08

chykka wrote:You guys would make a mess with the engine given the chance to do it :lol: Or at least pushing the limits. Isn't ecm just a flat modifier anyway.


To my knowledge, Yes It affects everything that Aims at you.

Also to my knowledge im pretty sure its stacks with Size.
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby VCG-001 USS Spain » Sun 7 Jan 2018 17:21

We should try to develop an entire game to deal with these problems, in all honesty. I have no idea how we could get it to work, because with kickstarters accountability is an issue and we probably couldn't make something this high quality in the first place.

But I would pay for a Wargame Red Dragon sequel, especially one that was made with better decisions. Adding on to what Razzmann said in his video, I have always felt that the devs were a little bit afraid to make necessary changes, or changes that were interesting, logical or no. The only time I ever really felt that they did what they could and not just what was safe was when they changed up the Chinese tanks and added Strelas to some North Korean tanks. I loved that change, not because it fixed North Korea, but because it added something interesting, real, and just simply cool. I don't think the devs have enough freedom to do that.

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