Helicopter ECM help

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Sireyn
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Sireyn » Tue 9 Jan 2018 10:29

https://media.defense.gov/1991/Jun/18/2001714503/-1/-1/1/91-099.pdf

Interesting read regarding acquisition of AN/ALQ-144 and its upgrades. Apparently it was reasonably effective when it was first installed in 1980, but became outdated quickly. During that time, the Air Force, Army, and Navy/Marines used and upgraded its countermeasure suites differently.

The Army "did not install missile detection systems on most combat and combat support helicopters" due to funding, but did use other systems, such as chaff/flare dispensers and IR Jammers. The Jammers were apparently used infrequently- less than 90 cumulative hours in 8 years, resulting in unit failures, but this was corrected in 1990. The Army was the primary proponent for the AN/ALQ-144A upgrade, with the first units produced in 1989.

The Navy/Marines "did use missile detection systems that were augmented with flare and chaff dispensers", but, "did not use suppression systems and did not upgrade the AN/ALQ-144".

The Air Force "did employ the full complement of defensive countermeasures" (AN/ALQ-144A, chaff/flare dispensers, missile detection)

Relevant Systems
AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System :
AN/ALQ-144 (1980) :
AN/ALQ-144A (1989/1990) : Prototyped in 1987 on AH-1F Cobra, UH-1 Huey, AH-64 Apache, and UH-60 Blackhawk
AN/ALQ-144 "Phase-Lock" (1989/1990) : Navy upgrade allowing two jammers at once. Meant for a special project.

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molnibalage
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby molnibalage » Fri 2 Feb 2018 11:12

Narcissistic Black wrote:Hello guys I've been trying to build a list on IF helicopters in Wargame had ECM Values what they could look like and I'm finding hard to find accurate info the Helicopters and wondered if you guys could with your fast military knowledge help? End goal in mind was to see if It was something I wanted to add into my mod.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/nq6i1ja0d ... ssiles.pdf
Thermal jammer. The problem you cannot model it. Against old AM IR gudiance worked very well, against FM has limited usage and every other more advanced IR guidance simply ignore this or even helps the guidance.

Rest of your questions are also partially answered in the linked document.

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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Sireyn » Sat 3 Feb 2018 06:11

molnibalage wrote:http://www.mediafire.com/file/nq6i1ja0ds9gqi4/Histoy_of_the_Electro-Optical_Guided_Missiles.pdf
Thermal jammer. The problem you cannot model it. Against old AM IR gudiance worked very well, against FM has limited usage and every other more advanced IR guidance simply ignore this or even helps the guidance.

Rest of your questions are also partially answered in the linked document.


Thank you for posting that, it was well worth the read.

A jammer might be possible to model as a CIWS that only causes critical damage, with the critical effect being a reduction in accuracy. If there is some way to add a parameter or tablestring that restricts the targeting to designated missiles, similar to the method to create air transportable vehicles, it could work. Only an idea though.

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Mike
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Mike » Sat 3 Feb 2018 18:39

Sireyn wrote:
molnibalage wrote:http://www.mediafire.com/file/nq6i1ja0ds9gqi4/Histoy_of_the_Electro-Optical_Guided_Missiles.pdf
Thermal jammer. The problem you cannot model it. Against old AM IR gudiance worked very well, against FM has limited usage and every other more advanced IR guidance simply ignore this or even helps the guidance.

Rest of your questions are also partially answered in the linked document.


Thank you for posting that, it was well worth the read.

A jammer might be possible to model as a CIWS that only causes critical damage, with the critical effect being a reduction in accuracy. If there is some way to add a parameter or tablestring that restricts the targeting to designated missiles, similar to the method to create air transportable vehicles, it could work. Only an idea though.


It would be better as ECM, unless they added a new critical to the game. Firing Computer Reset puts the accuracy in the single digits.
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Sireyn
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Sireyn » Sun 4 Feb 2018 00:08

Mike wrote:
Sireyn wrote:Thank you for posting that, it was well worth the read.

A jammer might be possible to model as a CIWS that only causes critical damage, with the critical effect being a reduction in accuracy. If there is some way to add a parameter or tablestring that restricts the targeting to designated missiles, similar to the method to create air transportable vehicles, it could work. Only an idea though.


It would be better as ECM, unless they added a new critical to the game. Firing Computer Reset puts the accuracy in the single digits.


We can add our own criticals to the game in about 2 seconds. The only issue might be getting the jammer to only target certain missiles.
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby molnibalage » Tue 6 Feb 2018 12:33

Sireyn wrote:
Mike wrote:
Sireyn wrote:Thank you for posting that, it was well worth the read.

A jammer might be possible to model as a CIWS that only causes critical damage, with the critical effect being a reduction in accuracy. If there is some way to add a parameter or tablestring that restricts the targeting to designated missiles, similar to the method to create air transportable vehicles, it could work. Only an idea though.


It would be better as ECM, unless they added a new critical to the game. Firing Computer Reset puts the accuracy in the single digits.


We can add our own criticals to the game in about 2 seconds. The only issue might be getting the jammer to only target certain missiles.
Image

If you can add criticals I have another idea for airplanes. If you create criticals for creating area denial capability same can be applied. In case being targetted by long range radar SAMs, it should lower the ACC of airplanes to make less accurate AGMs or even bombing.

To me the big problem even if you create a MOD only a fraction of players will ever use.

IMHO the capability of engine of WG is way too strong limited to model well the environment. A new WG is what we need. (Especially how screwed RD in general comparing to ALB.. )

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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 7 Feb 2018 00:42

molnibalage wrote:(Especially how screwed RD in general comparing to ALB.. )

Do you just want to go ahead and put this in your sig? It'll save you typing it in every post.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Mike
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby Mike » Wed 7 Feb 2018 07:27

FrangibleCover wrote:
molnibalage wrote:(Especially how screwed RD in general comparing to ALB.. )

Do you just want to go ahead and put this in your sig? It'll save you typing it in every post.


Agreed.
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Re: Helicopter ECM help

Postby molnibalage » Wed 14 Feb 2018 17:33

FrangibleCover wrote:
molnibalage wrote:(Especially how screwed RD in general comparing to ALB.. )

Do you just want to go ahead and put this in your sig? It'll save you typing it in every post.

I do not care about Eugen and WG anymore. I even visit the forum very rarely. WG is dead to me now. I was good in the past but it does not worth my time anymore.

I would play era and special minor era games any day but the community is too stupid to play such game, only A cat pubstomping shit which is available. I deleted even ALB weeks ago, I have not played ALB since dec. I have not even launched RD since Sept. of 2017 and I opened only check DB of RD and maybe I played a single game remember myself why I should forget RD. Forever.

StDV is a garbage to me*, so as long as Eugen do not announce someting new...

*Steam charts are clear about what players think about StDV..

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