Community Balance Patch

high_melanin
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Thu 25 Jan 2018 22:05

Markenzwieback wrote:
high_melanin wrote:Why don't you start with your list and show us how peak performance looks like?

I'd highly suggest you check the old thread and the discussion on balance there before calling out others. Its linked in the OP.


I checked that thread. No peak performance there.

urogard
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby urogard » Thu 25 Jan 2018 23:48

HrcAk47 wrote:
urogard wrote:and this is how a thread about a community balance patch degerates.
People who have no clue about balance write crap like "add S-300" or "add Tochka".


Side question, and probably slightly offtopic, why are you named by an urine collection bag? It's been bothering me since forever.

http://www.progress.com.sg/product/teru ... inary-bag/

started using that nickname years before you'd think of googling the username you had just come up with.
at one point I went ahead and did the exact same search you did.
after seeing the results i went "meh, too much effort of changing the nick" and ignored the whole issue
considering you're literally the first person to ever bring this up, I figure I made a pretty decent decision of just ignoring it.

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby urogard » Thu 25 Jan 2018 23:56

high_melanin wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:
high_melanin wrote:Why don't you start with your list and show us how peak performance looks like?

I'd highly suggest you check the old thread and the discussion on balance there before calling out others. Its linked in the OP.


I checked that thread. No peak performance there.

Pages 3 and 4 alone have dozens of suggestions.
So what are you even talking about?

high_melanin
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 11:06

urogard wrote:Pages 3 and 4 alone have dozens of suggestions.
So what are you even talking about?


Are you telling me that buffing the spike and giving isr a 55pt bmpt with +2 armor are not jokes?

urogard
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby urogard » Fri 26 Jan 2018 12:48

high_melanin wrote:
urogard wrote:Pages 3 and 4 alone have dozens of suggestions.
So what are you even talking about?

Are you telling me that buffing the spike and giving isr a 55pt bmpt with +2 armor are not jokes?

I don't understand your logic, if there is any.

What makes you think 100% of the things that were written there are changes that would be accepted?
I said there's dozens of suggestions on those two pages alone.
If you are trying to highlight 2-3 suggestions and imply or actually argue that all of them are invalid then you've committed some serious logical fallacy and shouldn't even be posting until you read up on logical fallacies.
I still have no clue what the fuck you meant by "peak performance", that doesn't even make sense.

On the topic of Marken's suggestions, I've went through them and even though I find for a first community patch they are too extensive. I would be happy with a vast majority of them in an ultimate scenario.

Maglan moved to the infantry tab, optics and stealth adjusted
Maglan squad size increased to 10
Maglan availability set to one card
Maglan availablity set to 0/0/0/8/6
Maglan Spike MR firing noise reduced to regular ATGM level

There were 2 schools of thought about what to do with maglan.
I haven't decided which one I'd support yet, I would however say it has to stay 5 men or get a range reduction no matter which school is implemented.

Merkava IIA armor reduced to 17/6/4/4
Merkava IIA AP value removed from main gun
Merkava IIA price reduced to 55 points

Transports are ALWAYS cheaper than their equivalent units in other tabs. Has always been like that, because you also have to pay for and get the infantry.
Making the Merkava transport be unable to effectively kill tanks as it currently is capable, is the single most agreed upon solution of fixing the tank when trying to keep it as a transport.

Vobule
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Vobule » Fri 26 Jan 2018 13:34

Nice avail on those Maglans, I will enjoy my 8 elite Spikes. Please keep them 5 men so it can stay at cheap price too !
I will also quite appreciate my 18 FAV 4 TAV transport with independant MG, AGL and HE gun for 65 points (+10 for infantry). Just in front of an AP capable Merkava, delicious.
Half the changes in the pages of the old thread you mentioned are changes for change sake, the hate boner against Finland and Yugoslavia is quite amazing too.

You literally pissed in a bag and called it logic. Your nickname is quite apt I suppose.

I still have no clue what the fuck you meant by "peak performance", that doesn't even make sense.

For someone playing mostly 10v10 on 1v1 map, this is indeed to be expected.

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Markenzwieback
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Fri 26 Jan 2018 14:51

Vobule wrote:Maglans

Do you even understand what a discussion is? Just throwing around passive aggressive arguments won't contribute to that.

In addition to what I proposed, a reduction of range on the Maglan's Spike to 1525m would also be a viable option. Easily outranged by all tanks, easy to counter. But better keep on throwing shit at the fan and later complain why Eugen doesn't take community efforts seriously.

Vobule wrote:the hate boner against Finland and Yugoslavia is quite amazing too.

Mhm, interesting point. Especially when one of the major Yugo proponents can agree to those changes listed. You gonna go on about how both Finland and Yugo are perfectly balanced, too?
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high_melanin
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 15:14

Markenzwieback wrote:Do you even understand what a discussion is? Just throwing around passive aggressive arguments won't contribute to that.


In primis, I asked for a list of changes and I was told to consider the list as the proposal. If the list is not what you propose, post a new one here.

In secundis, the spike is a problem as a concept not just in combination with maglans. That list shows I am not the only one clueless.

Gen3ralAustria
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Gen3ralAustria » Fri 26 Jan 2018 15:22

Why am I not surprised that Maglans are #1 problem here?

To the original idea:

Firstly, I doubt that all of the community could discuss changes on such a level. It would and will only end in chaos.
Secondly, why bother at all?
Thirdly, it takes more than just people and ideas.
Austria for Wargame:RD as National Pack!

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Markenzwieback
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Fri 26 Jan 2018 15:23

My post wasn't directed at you, but ok...
high_melanin wrote:In primis, I asked for a list of changes and I was told to consider the list as the proposal. If the list is not what you propose, post a new one here.

What is your point? The previous thread featured several lists of changes from different people (myself included) and a discussion of them. In the OP I simply proposed that we keep on discussing and try to keep the project moving. No point in re-posting what was already posted.

high_melanin wrote:In secundis, the spike is a problem as a concept not just in combination with maglans. That list shows I am not the only one clueless.

You might want to explain why the Spike as a concept is the problem and show how you would fix this. Instead of just writing a statement without any further argument and calling others clueless.
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