Community Balance Patch

high_melanin
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 2 Mar 2018 17:49

hansbroger wrote:I've come to accept them in the current game balance


How much do you play?

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hansbroger
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby hansbroger » Fri 2 Mar 2018 18:09

high_melanin wrote:
hansbroger wrote:I've come to accept them in the current game balance


How much do you play?


Probably 4 games a week
Projectnordic in game! will likely see you on pact/red dragons/french!
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another505
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby another505 » Fri 2 Mar 2018 18:15

I wanted to make a really long thread about what I would do to change RD but its going to be so long , controversial and nothing going to be done anways. I am just going to post what I already wrote, its not done, even the nations I wrote are still missing some stuffs, and is not organized
edit: added Gorno series being shock.
Really long
Spoiler : :
This just my personal opinion and vision on what should Wargame:RD should be like. My philosophy that the level of realism in the game is fine, could be slightly increased with better mechanics and UI but not in this game, but the balance is off. Mainly, the coalitions need to be perfected and each faction should have a role in the battlefield. And each coalition should have a specialization(the ones you pick ingame) get some proto to make them more unique and viable. But even then, i doubt specialization would overcome non-spec decks. Prices and inconsistency would not be mentioned much as there is another thread about it, unless they are frankly too good/bad in current state.
Note: Irl, some coalition should be a lot better rounded, say USA and USSR kinda has everything. But, i want to make each coalition more unique in some specialization yet without completely crippling their non-specialized role, or very unrealistic nerfs in those categories.
Also its a lot of changes, yet not all of them final and i am VERY open to suggestions despite it won't happen. Just purely for fun. A lot of changes are borrowed from forum and faustmann mod
Also, i know i am going to get a lot of shit in this, but whatever, is a dead forum LOL

General Changes:

Baltic, Entente, Norad Coalitions removed. These nations are powerful enough to go standalone or could be slightly buffed in certain areas to be more competitive alone, and would make balancing easier with units not being in so many different factions and concerns.

Amphibious tanks, ZTS-63-2, PT-76 and etc. to Veh. They are rarely ever used ingame, being in vehicle should make it more common

ATGM BUFF in general (except nimrod and plane atgm)
All ground- helo ATGM missile speed increase by 10percent except Spikes series
MCLOS speed by 15 percent instead
All ATGM accuracy increase by 5 except vikhr, hellfire, TOW series which are already really good for each generation compare to others ATGM.
ATGM stabilizers except the israel's removed(since they are FnF irl) and get another 5 percent accuracy.
This is to make ATGM still viable against smoke screens. Smokes will also get a buffed, but to reward preplanning, and not responsive smoke

All smokes duration increase by 10 percent + 10 percent spread
Mortar aim time increase to 12 ( I believe mortar needs to be toned down a bit. They are just too useful and a must have. Not to mention their response time and accuracy is kinda ridiculous, same as high end artillery? )
Medium tier artillery 80-110pts aimtime decrease to 20 (ex. Dana, AMXF1) These artillery are the weakest. The 55 pts 152/155mm ones can be spammed, and the high end one are great in response time, but these expensive, slow respond time, low avail. artillery needs help.
203mm Artillery smoke ability aim time decrease to 20. To make them slightly better in such role.

High tier MLRS aim time increase to 15s to slightly lean to reward preplanning, not responsive fire.

MG change. I want to represent the advantage of magazine MG better. They should be better in fire on the move compare to lumbering minimis and mg3. The top magazine MG stab should get 75 percent accuracy of the stationary fire. And the heavy ones get a hefty stab reduction. This allow some MG better in assault and some better in defence, but since general infantry combat is fire on the move anyways, the meta of MG would mostly remain the same.

Long range IR AA like NEWA and EOTS hawk removed.
500KG bombs
These bombs are really weak, generally weaker than 227-250kg counterparts that planes usually carry a LOT of them or cheap, and 1000kg bombs are just amazing. Their blast radius should be slightly increased.
DW, those bombers that carry a lot 500kg bombs will be slightly nerfed by either payload or price.

T-62 Series get 4 HE no suppression buff
since they are 115mm with actual HE frag shells, they should get 4 HE, and make the T-62 slightly more useful

AA helo rebalance in a long thread i made

Sniper rifles differentiated from Designated Marksmen vs sniper.
10men squads with snipers get 80 accuracy, 15rof
2men sniper team get 200m range buff(both Anti-material and normal sniper rifle) to make them more useful

All Tanks Post-1985 get med optics. Some Pre-1985 has med optics as exceptions

All pure SRAAM fighters with 1 missile weapon slots buff 2s reload time to 1s, and 1s to 0.5. To make them more useful in dogfights and helo hunting

Attack Recons - m84an, leo1av, amx10rc.
These have been buffed a lot over the game's history, that often it seems to evolve a gameplay of finding them then kill them or get picked off. The individual balances will be at below.

The KVPT problem
Since buffing the BTR60 to 10pts, even with AP removed, would be too good compare to other 10pts. I generally think just buffing all KVPT rof by 10 percent would be fine.
Reasons:
The whole BTR KVPT series would be more viable but not a meta unit
Redfor in general other than USSR would not be affected since EB has skots, Finland has Xa180KT and RD has BTR80a, Btr60 with mg or wz551.
Both Yugo and USSR needs some weaknesses.
Helps NK KVPT tanks a bit .

All armored plane, Su-25 series and A10 loses 2 armor but become 15hp. cause they are pretty toxic in small games, and pretty unrealistic taking so many large sam missiles to take down in the 2fav section.

All RCL to 8 rof to slightly make them more useful

Air cannon rebalance- vague because its a lot of stuffs.

Marine specialty has all planes unlocked. never made sense that other specialization can use marine planes but marines can't use airforce planes.
Airborne + 1 vet and 2 slots in recon.
instead of +4 slots in helo becomes +2.
No one is going to spam 9 cards of helo. Airborne also have a strong responsibility of reconaissance and behind the line sabotage so buffing recon is nice, they are still heavily restricted in that section on what to take.

All ATGM in vehicle tab gains 1 free veterancy. ATGM vehicles are generally useless and hard to balance versus IFV. Gaining a free vet would help a bit. Maybe even +2 vet.

Note: I generally know redfor stuffs more than blufor so there would be naturally more small changes to red, but that doesnt mean i dont want to improve blufor. Just give me suggestions and ideas.

USSR
Specialty: The God of Tanks, power 2 per card planes to balance out USA(will be buffed air department) between blu/redfor. 2nd best in helicopters. Decent infantry but not cost effective, rely heavily on armored force to give their firepower.
Specialization: Airborne and Armored
Weakness: Recon and motorized. Weak attack recon, motorized units are expensive.
Ka-52 gain Kh-25ml, 28ap, 70 accuracy, no stab, 2925m range. 140pts, 2 per card.Making the kamov more useful but still quite inefficient.
Reason: SEAD helo should be solely USA's affair. besides, its freaking useless without atgm, the supercobra is actually pretty good.
Ka-50's Vikhr gains 2275m anti helo range 3 HE
Reason: Vikhr irl can shoot helo with proximity fuse and fragmentation sleeve. At 150pts is still weaker than longbow so no price change is really needed. Since Vikhr is crap in stabilizer and with its short range. i doubt Ka-50 would suddenly be a lot better in the opening.
BTR90 1 card
Reason: Same as marder 2 being 1 per card proto ifv/apc.
T-80u series get 4 TAV.
T-64bv to 20AP, the 19AP shells come out of nowhere
T-80bv to 105pts.
T-80, b and bv into marine
Rpg16D gains 980m range. VDV 75 and Kommandosi gets this buff
Reason: USSR remains not so competitive in infantry combat but gives RPG16D some distinct advantages it has irl, giving the two lackluster infantry something unique and special without much change in meta
BTR- D 80kmph offroad speed -33% gun rof
- BTR-D are really fast and light, same engine and lighter than bmd-1 which has 80kmph offroad ingame. ROF reduction is because irl is double pkt not quad PKT
BMP-3 gains 8 arkan, but rof reduced to 6 per minute
reason: this is going to be quite controversial i think. The early generation of bmp3 do not have their atgm in their autoloader, needs to be manually loaded. And 8 missiles is the correct amount. Is generally a nerf, but prices can change if it does get a lot weaker.
Gorno 75 and 90 into shock, no price or avail. change.

Smerch becomes 1 per card HE munition
Uragan becomes cluster uragan like the Eastern block
- reason: Since ATACMS is going to be removed (read at USA section), blufor would have be disadvantaged in cluster artillery, and since ppl complain about smerch a lot but not cluster uragan, an easy change would be to swap the roles.

Possible proto: Sprut SD- 3 armor, obr 1989 gun and atgm. 80kmph offroad, airborne only

Il-102 removed, never served irl, become Su-27IB, 1 per card, 50 ecm, 4 R-73 SRAAM, 1 KAB-1500.
Reason: I wanted to make it 2 per card with a weaker loadout, but unless i make it like 2 250kg LGB, it makes a huge disservice to other 2 per card LGB with more useful loadout. Might as well give it an unique LGB, but 1 per card.
Su-27m, loses 2 atgm, change R-77 to 4x R-73. 2 per card
Su-27s buff to 150pts
Mig-29m loses RBT-500 and gains 2 x KAB-250, R-77 to 2x R-73. 2 per card

Spetz becomes somewhat a cost inefficient fjb-40 and lstr
AS VAL becomes AR cause its not a damn SMG irl, gain RPG7v, strela3. 30pts.
-is just a fancy of mine of spetsnaz to represent the spetsnaz attached to airborne and give support to the VDV. i dont want to make them as good as E-German's specialty. Napalm SF also becomes unique to RD only


USA
Specialty: Powerful 1 per card planes. Helos, and high tech reconnaissance units. As the high tech nation, USA should have the best optics, translating to powerful aggressive recon. Powerful planes as their flavor, not their AA.

Specialization: Motorized and Marine
F-15D, 50 ecm , gain AIM-120
F-18C become the new Su-27m, 1 per card vet. Gain aim-120.
F-16c with 2 227kg lgb 2 per card
Nighthawk gains 2 separate weapon slots, each with 1 LGB, allow better micro for players.
Reason: USA should have a lot of precision munition and multirole planes.
To recon:
Cav Scout gain Super dragon.
Super dragon becomes 16ap, 65 accuracy, range to 1750.
Super dragon is very weak, at least it should take down 2av stuffs, with a reduction to its range to a more realistic reason and a drawback. Its accuracy is buffed to compensate its range reduction that would nerf its accuracy as a side product. Also took account to general atgm buffs I mentioned above
Lav-25 to marine
All bushmaster 1 gain 10 percent rof,
Patriot removed
Lav-AD added
ATACMS changed into cluster MLRS
- people are generally in two camps about atacms, either its useless because good players dodge it, or its super broken cause some players cant dodge it. In the end, both of them think it as negative. I think it promotes a terrible gameplay i mentioned in another thread. Besides, I think someone argued it is super unrealistic ootf.
Gain M60a3 TTS recon
-USA should join the game of powerful recon tanks (not too powerful like m84an)
m3 bradley
Humvee gains 95kmph offroad speed
M1a1- 20AP
Patton line rebalance.


Since USA is about Recon a lot, lets look into redfor's powerful recon nation.
Finland
Speciality: powerful low end recon and recon inf. Guerrilla like warfare design, high accuracy and AP glass cannon tanks, powerful yet fragile IFV, and ATGM.
Specialization: Motorized
I am not going to change Xa180KT but their line infantry 90 would be 15pts. Maybe even slightly reducing their MG rof.
T-72 finmod becomes 3 per card, 20FAV.
Reason- its currently the weakest 2 per card super heavy, just reducing its armor should be enough to make it into the 3 per card category. I am very aware its better than twardy and so on. But since Finland has no other true heavy, i think it is fine.
Gain 2 men sniper team, i mean come on. Finland should get sniper team 8-)
Mig-29 becomes 4 FAB 500 +2 R-77. 2 per card, trained
- R-77 is one main reason Mig29 was decided by Finland iirc from a thread. And Finn lacks a decent ecm bomber. So it would be an unique Mig29 that solves Finland's weakness and removing the broken ripple fire plane

RD on the other hand is somewhat similar to finland. Slower than the Finns, RD brings more punch in close range:
Their tanks have are cost efficient in High AP and armor, but low rof and accuracy.
Infantry is diverse and strong in close range but lacking in firesupport besides some IFV.

Tank line change: RD probably has the most 23AP tanks in quantity(not necessary in card number)
T90s to Song'un
130 pts
5 per card trained
17fav, 4 tav
8 rof
23AP with 55 accuracy, 35 stabs.
50kmph offroad
prototype 1998

WZ-123
160pts
3 per card trained
20fav, 3tav
8 rof
23AP 60 accuracy, 45 stabs
60kmph
2 QW-1 on top

ztz-85-3
145pts
4 per card
19fav, 3tav
8 rof (so +1)
23 ap(+1) 60 accuracy, 45 stab
60kmph

Chomaho 4 gets Strela3
ZTZ-85-2m
WZ-551 becomes 1fav
ZSD90 becomes 20pts
- Going to nerf RD's ifv but give better infantry. RD should be heavily focused in infantry, perhaps the most ingame.
Zhanshi 85 gains type 81 MG
PLA's 10men shock becomes shock light infantry - AT weapon into QLZ 87 AGL. 2 KE AP(since HEAT would be op with the 1dmg clause) 875m range. Way shorter burst than regular AGL to make sure its not broken.
Lijian 90 to 30pts. Gosh, SF naplam are really cost inefficient now.
PF 98 to Tanke Shashou 85, become 95. 25AP, 1225m range. 2 HE with napalm, 70 accuracy. 8 rof.
NK marine 90 gain Metis ATGM. Base Metis buff to 16Ap
NK Marine 75 gets RPG-7v
Wz-550 Hj-9 changed to Hj-8A. Going to take away the ATGM strength of RD, that should be Israel
However, would give NK, Konkurs ATGM infantry as basic atgm is quite needed
Mi-25 gets 80 S-8 rocket, to make it a better fire support helo.
MD-500 AGL helo into recon, gain good optics

Gain Prototype PLZ-45 as 155mm 10 second artillery
Early ZTQ tanks cheaper.

Su-27sk become SMK. 160pts, 40 ecm, 4 R-77, 2 R-73, 2 per card. F16blcok 52 copy.
- RD should at least get a somewhat useful ASF. the f-16 is not even that competitive compare to 2 per card elite or 1 per card elite ASF
NK Mig-29 to Yugo's copy
J-7C -10 ecm
J-7H -20 ecm
B-5 nerf to 170pts, 2 per card, 1 card. Going to make it less cost efficient since it will have the same avail. as Finnish B-5 but much better.


Scandinavia- high armored IFV, powerful stationary infantry
CMW- Jack of all trade, strong airforce
BD- High DPS
EB- Mechanized shock infantry with strong medium and heavy tank
Yugo- all around good tanks and line infantry, good AA
Israel- cost efficient high AV tanks, but weak in AP. ATGM and airforce focus
EC- powerful super heavy tanks and mech,
Last edited by another505 on Sat 3 Mar 2018 03:53, edited 2 times in total.
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ppd401
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Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2018 01:49
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby ppd401 » Sat 3 Mar 2018 02:34

another505 wrote:I wanted to make a really long thread about what I would do to change RD but its going to be so long , controversial and nothing going to be done anways. I am just going to post what I already wrote, its not done, even the nations I wrote are still missing some stuffs, and is not organized

Really long
Spoiler : :
This just my personal opinion and vision on what should Wargame:RD should be like. My philosophy that the level of realism in the game is fine, could be slightly increased with better mechanics and UI but not in this game, but the balance is off. Mainly, the coalitions need to be perfected and each faction should have a role in the battlefield. And each coalition should have a specialization(the ones you pick ingame) get some proto to make them more unique and viable. But even then, i doubt specialization would overcome non-spec decks. Prices and inconsistency would not be mentioned much as there is another thread about it, unless they are frankly too good/bad in current state.
Note: Irl, some coalition should be a lot better rounded, say USA and USSR kinda has everything. But, i want to make each coalition more unique in some specialization yet without completely crippling their non-specialized role, or very unrealistic nerfs in those categories.
Also its a lot of changes, yet not all of them final and i am VERY open to suggestions despite it won't happen. Just purely for fun. A lot of changes are borrowed from forum and faustmann mod
Also, i know i am going to get a lot of shit in this, but whatever, is a dead forum LOL

General Changes:

Baltic, Entente, Norad Coalitions removed. These nations are powerful enough to go standalone or could be slightly buffed in certain areas to be more competitive alone, and would make balancing easier with units not being in so many different factions and concerns.

Amphibious tanks, ZTS-63-2, PT-76 and etc. to Veh. They are rarely ever used ingame, being in vehicle should make it more common

ATGM BUFF in general (except nimrod and plane atgm)
All ground- helo ATGM missile speed increase by 10percent except Spikes series
MCLOS speed by 15 percent instead
All ATGM accuracy increase by 5 except vikhr, hellfire, TOW series which are already really good for each generation compare to others ATGM.
ATGM stabilizers except the israel's removed(since they are FnF irl) and get another 5 percent accuracy.
This is to make ATGM still viable against smoke screens. Smokes will also get a buffed, but to reward preplanning, and not responsive smoke

All smokes duration increase by 10 percent + 10 percent spread
Mortar aim time increase to 12 ( I believe mortar needs to be toned down a bit. They are just too useful and a must have. Not to mention their response time and accuracy is kinda ridiculous, same as high end artillery? )
Medium tier artillery 80-110pts aimtime decrease to 20 (ex. Dana, AMXF1) These artillery are the weakest. The 55 pts 152/155mm ones can be spammed, and the high end one are great in response time, but these expensive, slow respond time, low avail. artillery needs help.
203mm Artillery smoke ability aim time decrease to 20. To make them slightly better in such role.

High tier MLRS aim time increase to 15s to slightly lean to reward preplanning, not responsive fire.

MG change. I want to represent the advantage of magazine MG better. They should be better in fire on the move compare to lumbering minimis and mg3. The top magazine MG stab should get 75 percent accuracy of the stationary fire. And the heavy ones get a hefty stab reduction. This allow some MG better in assault and some better in defence, but since general infantry combat is fire on the move anyways, the meta of MG would mostly remain the same.

Long range IR AA like NEWA and EOTS hawk removed.
500KG bombs
These bombs are really weak, generally weaker than 227-250kg counterparts that planes usually carry a LOT of them or cheap, and 1000kg bombs are just amazing. Their blast radius should be slightly increased.
DW, those bombers that carry a lot 500kg bombs will be slightly nerfed by either payload or price.

T-62 Series get 4 HE no suppression buff
since they are 115mm with actual HE frag shells, they should get 4 HE, and make the T-62 slightly more useful

AA helo rebalance in a long thread i made

Sniper rifles differentiated from Designated Marksmen vs sniper.
10men squads with snipers get 80 accuracy, 15rof
2men sniper team get 200m range buff(both Anti-material and normal sniper rifle) to make them more useful

All Tanks Post-1985 get med optics. Some Pre-1985 has med optics as exceptions

All pure SRAAM fighters with 1 missile weapon slots buff 2s reload time to 1s, and 1s to 0.5. To make them more useful in dogfights and helo hunting

Attack Recons - m84an, leo1av, amx10rc.
These have been buffed a lot over the game's history, that often it seems to evolve a gameplay of finding them then kill them or get picked off. The individual balances will be at below.

The KVPT problem
Since buffing the BTR60 to 10pts, even with AP removed, would be too good compare to other 10pts. I generally think just buffing all KVPT rof by 10 percent would be fine.
Reasons:
The whole BTR KVPT series would be more viable but not a meta unit
Redfor in general other than USSR would not be affected since EB has skots, Finland has Xa180KT and RD has BTR80a, Btr60 with mg or wz551.
Both Yugo and USSR needs some weaknesses.
Helps NK KVPT tanks a bit .

All armored plane, Su-25 series and A10 loses 2 armor but become 15hp. cause they are pretty toxic in small games, and pretty unrealistic taking so many large sam missiles to take down in the 2fav section.

All RCL to 8 rof to slightly make them more useful

Air cannon rebalance- vague because its a lot of stuffs.

Marine specialty has all planes unlocked. never made sense that other specialization can use marine planes but marines can't use airforce planes.
Airborne + 1 vet and 2 slots in recon.
instead of +4 slots in helo becomes +2.
No one is going to spam 9 cards of helo. Airborne also have a strong responsibility of reconaissance and behind the line sabotage so buffing recon is nice, they are still heavily restricted in that section on what to take.

All ATGM in vehicle tab gains 1 free veterancy. ATGM vehicles are generally useless and hard to balance versus IFV. Gaining a free vet would help a bit. Maybe even +2 vet.

Note: I generally know redfor stuffs more than blufor so there would be naturally more small changes to red, but that doesnt mean i dont want to improve blufor. Just give me suggestions and ideas.

USSR
Specialty: The God of Tanks, power 2 per card planes to balance out USA(will be buffed air department) between blu/redfor. 2nd best in helicopters. Decent infantry but not cost effective, rely heavily on armored force to give their firepower.
Specialization: Airborne and Armored
Weakness: Recon and motorized. Weak attack recon, motorized units are expensive.
Ka-52 gain Kh-25ml, 28ap, 70 accuracy, no stab, 2925m range. 140pts, 2 per card.Making the kamov more useful but still quite inefficient.
Reason: SEAD helo should be solely USA's affair. besides, its freaking useless without atgm, the supercobra is actually pretty good.
Ka-50's Vikhr gains 2275m anti helo range 3 HE
Reason: Vikhr irl can shoot helo with proximity fuse and fragmentation sleeve. At 150pts is still weaker than longbow so no price change is really needed. Since Vikhr is crap in stabilizer and with its short range. i doubt Ka-50 would suddenly be a lot better in the opening.
BTR90 1 card
Reason: Same as marder 2 being 1 per card proto ifv/apc.
T-80u series get 4 TAV.
T-64bv to 20AP, the 19AP shells come out of nowhere
T-80bv to 105pts.
T-80, b and bv into marine
Rpg16D gains 980m range. VDV 75 and Kommandosi gets this buff
Reason: USSR remains not so competitive in infantry combat but gives RPG16D some distinct advantages it has irl, giving the two lackluster infantry something unique and special without much change in meta
BTR- D 80kmph offroad speed -33% gun rof
- BTR-D are really fast and light, same engine and lighter than bmd-1 which has 80kmph offroad ingame. ROF reduction is because irl is double pkt not quad PKT
BMP-3 gains 8 arkan, but rof reduced to 6 per minute
reason: this is going to be quite controversial i think. The early generation of bmp3 do not have their atgm in their autoloader, needs to be manually loaded. And 8 missiles is the correct amount. Is generally a nerf, but prices can change if it does get a lot weaker.

Smerch becomes 1 per card HE munition
Uragan becomes cluster uragan like the Eastern block
- reason: Since ATACMS is going to be removed (read at USA section), blufor would have be disadvantaged in cluster artillery, and since ppl complain about smerch a lot but not cluster uragan, an easy change would be to swap the roles.

Possible proto: Sprut SD- 3 armor, obr 1989 gun and atgm. 80kmph offroad, airborne only

Il-102 removed, never served irl, become Su-27IB, 1 per card, 50 ecm, 4 R-73 SRAAM, 1 KAB-1500.
Reason: I wanted to make it 2 per card with a weaker loadout, but unless i make it like 2 250kg LGB, it makes a huge disservice to other 2 per card LGB with more useful loadout. Might as well give it an unique LGB, but 1 per card.
Su-27m, loses 2 atgm, change R-77 to 4x R-73. 2 per card
Su-27s buff to 150pts
Mig-29m loses RBT-500 and gains 2 x KAB-250, R-77 to 2x R-73. 2 per card

Spetz becomes somewhat a cost inefficient fjb-40 and lstr
AS VAL becomes AR cause its not a damn SMG irl, gain RPG7v, strela3. 30pts.
-is just a fancy of mine of spetsnaz to represent the spetsnaz attached to airborne and give support to the VDV. i dont want to make them as good as E-German's specialty. Napalm SF also becomes unique to RD only


USA
Specialty: Powerful 1 per card planes. Helos, and high tech reconnaissance units. As the high tech nation, USA should have the best optics, translating to powerful aggressive recon. Powerful planes as their flavor, not their AA.

Specialization: Motorized and Marine
F-15D, 50 ecm , gain AIM-120
F-18C become the new Su-27m, 1 per card vet. Gain aim-120.
F-16c with 2 227kg lgb 2 per card
Nighthawk gains 2 separate weapon slots, each with 1 LGB, allow better micro for players.
Reason: USA should have a lot of precision munition and multirole planes.
To recon:
Cav Scout gain Super dragon.
Super dragon becomes 16ap, 65 accuracy, range to 1750.
Super dragon is very weak, at least it should take down 2av stuffs, with a reduction to its range to a more realistic reason and a drawback. Its accuracy is buffed to compensate its range reduction that would nerf its accuracy as a side product. Also took account to general atgm buffs I mentioned above
Lav-25 to marine
All bushmaster 1 gain 10 percent rof,
Patriot removed
Lav-AD added
ATACMS changed into cluster MLRS
- people are generally in two camps about atacms, either its useless because good players dodge it, or its super broken cause some players cant dodge it. In the end, both of them think it as negative. I think it promotes a terrible gameplay i mentioned in another thread. Besides, I think someone argued it is super unrealistic ootf.
Gain M60a3 TTS recon
-USA should join the game of powerful recon tanks (not too powerful like m84an)
m3 bradley
Humvee gains 95kmph offroad speed
M1a1- 20AP
Patton line rebalance.


Since USA is about Recon a lot, lets look into redfor's powerful recon nation.
Finland
Speciality: powerful low end recon and recon inf. Guerrilla like warfare design, high accuracy and AP glass cannon tanks, powerful yet fragile IFV, and ATGM.
Specialization: Motorized
I am not going to change Xa180KT but their line infantry 90 would be 15pts. Maybe even slightly reducing their MG rof.
T-72 finmod becomes 3 per card, 20FAV.
Reason- its currently the weakest 2 per card super heavy, just reducing its armor should be enough to make it into the 3 per card category. I am very aware its better than twardy and so on. But since Finland has no other true heavy, i think it is fine.
Gain 2 men sniper team, i mean come on. Finland should get sniper team 8-)
Mig-29 becomes 4 FAB 500 +2 R-77. 2 per card, trained
- R-77 is one main reason Mig29 was decided by Finland iirc from a thread. And Finn lacks a decent ecm bomber. So it would be an unique Mig29 that solves Finland's weakness and removing the broken ripple fire plane

RD on the other hand is somewhat similar to finland. Slower than the Finns, RD brings more punch in close range:
Their tanks have are cost efficient in High AP and armor, but low rof and accuracy.
Infantry is diverse and strong in close range but lacking in firesupport besides some IFV.

Tank line change: RD probably has the most 23AP tanks in quantity(not necessary in card number)
T90s to Song'un
130 pts
5 per card trained
17fav, 4 tav
8 rof
23AP with 55 accuracy, 35 stabs.
50kmph offroad
prototype 1998

WZ-123
160pts
3 per card trained
20fav, 3tav
8 rof
23AP 60 accuracy, 45 stabs
60kmph
2 QW-1 on top

ztz-85-3
145pts
4 per card
19fav, 3tav
8 rof (so +1)
23 ap(+1) 60 accuracy, 45 stab
60kmph

Chomaho 4 gets Strela3
ZTZ-85-2m
WZ-551 becomes 1fav
ZSD90 becomes 20pts
- Going to nerf RD's ifv but give better infantry. RD should be heavily focused in infantry, perhaps the most ingame.
Zhanshi 85 gains type 81 MG
PLA's 10men shock becomes shock light infantry - AT weapon into QLZ 87 AGL. 2 KE AP(since HEAT would be op with the 1dmg clause) 875m range. Way shorter burst than regular AGL to make sure its not broken.
Lijian 90 to 30pts. Gosh, SF naplam are really cost inefficient now.
PF 98 to Tanke Shashou 85, become 95. 25AP, 1225m range. 2 HE with napalm, 70 accuracy. 8 rof.
NK marine 90 gain Metis ATGM. Base Metis buff to 16Ap
NK Marine 75 gets RPG-7v
Wz-550 Hj-9 changed to Hj-8A. Going to take away the ATGM strength of RD, that should be Israel
However, would give NK, Konkurs ATGM infantry as basic atgm is quite needed
Mi-25 gets 80 S-8 rocket, to make it a better fire support helo.
MD-500 AGL helo into recon, gain good optics

Gain Prototype PLZ-45 as 155mm 10 second artillery
Early ZTQ tanks cheaper.

Su-27sk become SMK. 160pts, 40 ecm, 4 R-77, 2 R-73, 2 per card. F16blcok 52 copy.
- RD should at least get a somewhat useful ASF. the f-16 is not even that competitive compare to 2 per card elite or 1 per card elite ASF
NK Mig-29 to Yugo's copy
J-7C -10 ecm
J-7H -20 ecm
B-5 nerf to 170pts, 2 per card, 1 card. Going to make it less cost efficient since it will have the same avail. as Finnish B-5 but much better.


Scandinavia- high armored IFV, powerful stationary infantry
CMW- Jack of all trade, strong airforce
BD- High DPS
EB- Mechanized shock infantry with strong medium and heavy tank
Yugo- all around good tanks and line infantry, good AA
Israel- cost efficient high AV tanks, but weak in AP. ATGM and airforce focus
EC- powerful super heavy tanks and mech,


So you basically want to flanderize each nation? Look the beauty of RD is that I can use each nation effectively with many different playstyles, giving them a few archetypical advantages(I. E US has the best planes, USSR has the most tanks) will significantly reduce tactical options.

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby another505 » Sat 3 Mar 2018 03:46

ppd401 wrote:
another505 wrote:I wanted to make a really long thread about what I would do to change RD but its going to be so long , controversial and nothing going to be done anways. I am just going to post what I already wrote, its not done, even the nations I wrote are still missing some stuffs, and is not organized

Really long
Spoiler : :
This just my personal opinion and vision on what should Wargame:RD should be like. My philosophy that the level of realism in the game is fine, could be slightly increased with better mechanics and UI but not in this game, but the balance is off. Mainly, the coalitions need to be perfected and each faction should have a role in the battlefield. And each coalition should have a specialization(the ones you pick ingame) get some proto to make them more unique and viable. But even then, i doubt specialization would overcome non-spec decks. Prices and inconsistency would not be mentioned much as there is another thread about it, unless they are frankly too good/bad in current state.
Note: Irl, some coalition should be a lot better rounded, say USA and USSR kinda has everything. But, i want to make each coalition more unique in some specialization yet without completely crippling their non-specialized role, or very unrealistic nerfs in those categories.
Also its a lot of changes, yet not all of them final and i am VERY open to suggestions despite it won't happen. Just purely for fun. A lot of changes are borrowed from forum and faustmann mod
Also, i know i am going to get a lot of shit in this, but whatever, is a dead forum LOL

General Changes:

Baltic, Entente, Norad Coalitions removed. These nations are powerful enough to go standalone or could be slightly buffed in certain areas to be more competitive alone, and would make balancing easier with units not being in so many different factions and concerns.

Amphibious tanks, ZTS-63-2, PT-76 and etc. to Veh. They are rarely ever used ingame, being in vehicle should make it more common

ATGM BUFF in general (except nimrod and plane atgm)
All ground- helo ATGM missile speed increase by 10percent except Spikes series
MCLOS speed by 15 percent instead
All ATGM accuracy increase by 5 except vikhr, hellfire, TOW series which are already really good for each generation compare to others ATGM.
ATGM stabilizers except the israel's removed(since they are FnF irl) and get another 5 percent accuracy.
This is to make ATGM still viable against smoke screens. Smokes will also get a buffed, but to reward preplanning, and not responsive smoke

All smokes duration increase by 10 percent + 10 percent spread
Mortar aim time increase to 12 ( I believe mortar needs to be toned down a bit. They are just too useful and a must have. Not to mention their response time and accuracy is kinda ridiculous, same as high end artillery? )
Medium tier artillery 80-110pts aimtime decrease to 20 (ex. Dana, AMXF1) These artillery are the weakest. The 55 pts 152/155mm ones can be spammed, and the high end one are great in response time, but these expensive, slow respond time, low avail. artillery needs help.
203mm Artillery smoke ability aim time decrease to 20. To make them slightly better in such role.

High tier MLRS aim time increase to 15s to slightly lean to reward preplanning, not responsive fire.

MG change. I want to represent the advantage of magazine MG better. They should be better in fire on the move compare to lumbering minimis and mg3. The top magazine MG stab should get 75 percent accuracy of the stationary fire. And the heavy ones get a hefty stab reduction. This allow some MG better in assault and some better in defence, but since general infantry combat is fire on the move anyways, the meta of MG would mostly remain the same.

Long range IR AA like NEWA and EOTS hawk removed.
500KG bombs
These bombs are really weak, generally weaker than 227-250kg counterparts that planes usually carry a LOT of them or cheap, and 1000kg bombs are just amazing. Their blast radius should be slightly increased.
DW, those bombers that carry a lot 500kg bombs will be slightly nerfed by either payload or price.

T-62 Series get 4 HE no suppression buff
since they are 115mm with actual HE frag shells, they should get 4 HE, and make the T-62 slightly more useful

AA helo rebalance in a long thread i made

Sniper rifles differentiated from Designated Marksmen vs sniper.
10men squads with snipers get 80 accuracy, 15rof
2men sniper team get 200m range buff(both Anti-material and normal sniper rifle) to make them more useful

All Tanks Post-1985 get med optics. Some Pre-1985 has med optics as exceptions

All pure SRAAM fighters with 1 missile weapon slots buff 2s reload time to 1s, and 1s to 0.5. To make them more useful in dogfights and helo hunting

Attack Recons - m84an, leo1av, amx10rc.
These have been buffed a lot over the game's history, that often it seems to evolve a gameplay of finding them then kill them or get picked off. The individual balances will be at below.

The KVPT problem
Since buffing the BTR60 to 10pts, even with AP removed, would be too good compare to other 10pts. I generally think just buffing all KVPT rof by 10 percent would be fine.
Reasons:
The whole BTR KVPT series would be more viable but not a meta unit
Redfor in general other than USSR would not be affected since EB has skots, Finland has Xa180KT and RD has BTR80a, Btr60 with mg or wz551.
Both Yugo and USSR needs some weaknesses.
Helps NK KVPT tanks a bit .

All armored plane, Su-25 series and A10 loses 2 armor but become 15hp. cause they are pretty toxic in small games, and pretty unrealistic taking so many large sam missiles to take down in the 2fav section.

All RCL to 8 rof to slightly make them more useful

Air cannon rebalance- vague because its a lot of stuffs.

Marine specialty has all planes unlocked. never made sense that other specialization can use marine planes but marines can't use airforce planes.
Airborne + 1 vet and 2 slots in recon.
instead of +4 slots in helo becomes +2.
No one is going to spam 9 cards of helo. Airborne also have a strong responsibility of reconaissance and behind the line sabotage so buffing recon is nice, they are still heavily restricted in that section on what to take.

All ATGM in vehicle tab gains 1 free veterancy. ATGM vehicles are generally useless and hard to balance versus IFV. Gaining a free vet would help a bit. Maybe even +2 vet.

Note: I generally know redfor stuffs more than blufor so there would be naturally more small changes to red, but that doesnt mean i dont want to improve blufor. Just give me suggestions and ideas.

USSR
Specialty: The God of Tanks, power 2 per card planes to balance out USA(will be buffed air department) between blu/redfor. 2nd best in helicopters. Decent infantry but not cost effective, rely heavily on armored force to give their firepower.
Specialization: Airborne and Armored
Weakness: Recon and motorized. Weak attack recon, motorized units are expensive.
Ka-52 gain Kh-25ml, 28ap, 70 accuracy, no stab, 2925m range. 140pts, 2 per card.Making the kamov more useful but still quite inefficient.
Reason: SEAD helo should be solely USA's affair. besides, its freaking useless without atgm, the supercobra is actually pretty good.
Ka-50's Vikhr gains 2275m anti helo range 3 HE
Reason: Vikhr irl can shoot helo with proximity fuse and fragmentation sleeve. At 150pts is still weaker than longbow so no price change is really needed. Since Vikhr is crap in stabilizer and with its short range. i doubt Ka-50 would suddenly be a lot better in the opening.
BTR90 1 card
Reason: Same as marder 2 being 1 per card proto ifv/apc.
T-80u series get 4 TAV.
T-64bv to 20AP, the 19AP shells come out of nowhere
T-80bv to 105pts.
T-80, b and bv into marine
Rpg16D gains 980m range. VDV 75 and Kommandosi gets this buff
Reason: USSR remains not so competitive in infantry combat but gives RPG16D some distinct advantages it has irl, giving the two lackluster infantry something unique and special without much change in meta
BTR- D 80kmph offroad speed -33% gun rof
- BTR-D are really fast and light, same engine and lighter than bmd-1 which has 80kmph offroad ingame. ROF reduction is because irl is double pkt not quad PKT
BMP-3 gains 8 arkan, but rof reduced to 6 per minute
reason: this is going to be quite controversial i think. The early generation of bmp3 do not have their atgm in their autoloader, needs to be manually loaded. And 8 missiles is the correct amount. Is generally a nerf, but prices can change if it does get a lot weaker.

Smerch becomes 1 per card HE munition
Uragan becomes cluster uragan like the Eastern block
- reason: Since ATACMS is going to be removed (read at USA section), blufor would have be disadvantaged in cluster artillery, and since ppl complain about smerch a lot but not cluster uragan, an easy change would be to swap the roles.

Possible proto: Sprut SD- 3 armor, obr 1989 gun and atgm. 80kmph offroad, airborne only

Il-102 removed, never served irl, become Su-27IB, 1 per card, 50 ecm, 4 R-73 SRAAM, 1 KAB-1500.
Reason: I wanted to make it 2 per card with a weaker loadout, but unless i make it like 2 250kg LGB, it makes a huge disservice to other 2 per card LGB with more useful loadout. Might as well give it an unique LGB, but 1 per card.
Su-27m, loses 2 atgm, change R-77 to 4x R-73. 2 per card
Su-27s buff to 150pts
Mig-29m loses RBT-500 and gains 2 x KAB-250, R-77 to 2x R-73. 2 per card

Spetz becomes somewhat a cost inefficient fjb-40 and lstr
AS VAL becomes AR cause its not a damn SMG irl, gain RPG7v, strela3. 30pts.
-is just a fancy of mine of spetsnaz to represent the spetsnaz attached to airborne and give support to the VDV. i dont want to make them as good as E-German's specialty. Napalm SF also becomes unique to RD only


USA
Specialty: Powerful 1 per card planes. Helos, and high tech reconnaissance units. As the high tech nation, USA should have the best optics, translating to powerful aggressive recon. Powerful planes as their flavor, not their AA.

Specialization: Motorized and Marine
F-15D, 50 ecm , gain AIM-120
F-18C become the new Su-27m, 1 per card vet. Gain aim-120.
F-16c with 2 227kg lgb 2 per card
Nighthawk gains 2 separate weapon slots, each with 1 LGB, allow better micro for players.
Reason: USA should have a lot of precision munition and multirole planes.
To recon:
Cav Scout gain Super dragon.
Super dragon becomes 16ap, 65 accuracy, range to 1750.
Super dragon is very weak, at least it should take down 2av stuffs, with a reduction to its range to a more realistic reason and a drawback. Its accuracy is buffed to compensate its range reduction that would nerf its accuracy as a side product. Also took account to general atgm buffs I mentioned above
Lav-25 to marine
All bushmaster 1 gain 10 percent rof,
Patriot removed
Lav-AD added
ATACMS changed into cluster MLRS
- people are generally in two camps about atacms, either its useless because good players dodge it, or its super broken cause some players cant dodge it. In the end, both of them think it as negative. I think it promotes a terrible gameplay i mentioned in another thread. Besides, I think someone argued it is super unrealistic ootf.
Gain M60a3 TTS recon
-USA should join the game of powerful recon tanks (not too powerful like m84an)
m3 bradley
Humvee gains 95kmph offroad speed
M1a1- 20AP
Patton line rebalance.


Since USA is about Recon a lot, lets look into redfor's powerful recon nation.
Finland
Speciality: powerful low end recon and recon inf. Guerrilla like warfare design, high accuracy and AP glass cannon tanks, powerful yet fragile IFV, and ATGM.
Specialization: Motorized
I am not going to change Xa180KT but their line infantry 90 would be 15pts. Maybe even slightly reducing their MG rof.
T-72 finmod becomes 3 per card, 20FAV.
Reason- its currently the weakest 2 per card super heavy, just reducing its armor should be enough to make it into the 3 per card category. I am very aware its better than twardy and so on. But since Finland has no other true heavy, i think it is fine.
Gain 2 men sniper team, i mean come on. Finland should get sniper team 8-)
Mig-29 becomes 4 FAB 500 +2 R-77. 2 per card, trained
- R-77 is one main reason Mig29 was decided by Finland iirc from a thread. And Finn lacks a decent ecm bomber. So it would be an unique Mig29 that solves Finland's weakness and removing the broken ripple fire plane

RD on the other hand is somewhat similar to finland. Slower than the Finns, RD brings more punch in close range:
Their tanks have are cost efficient in High AP and armor, but low rof and accuracy.
Infantry is diverse and strong in close range but lacking in firesupport besides some IFV.

Tank line change: RD probably has the most 23AP tanks in quantity(not necessary in card number)
T90s to Song'un
130 pts
5 per card trained
17fav, 4 tav
8 rof
23AP with 55 accuracy, 35 stabs.
50kmph offroad
prototype 1998

WZ-123
160pts
3 per card trained
20fav, 3tav
8 rof
23AP 60 accuracy, 45 stabs
60kmph
2 QW-1 on top

ztz-85-3
145pts
4 per card
19fav, 3tav
8 rof (so +1)
23 ap(+1) 60 accuracy, 45 stab
60kmph

Chomaho 4 gets Strela3
ZTZ-85-2m
WZ-551 becomes 1fav
ZSD90 becomes 20pts
- Going to nerf RD's ifv but give better infantry. RD should be heavily focused in infantry, perhaps the most ingame.
Zhanshi 85 gains type 81 MG
PLA's 10men shock becomes shock light infantry - AT weapon into QLZ 87 AGL. 2 KE AP(since HEAT would be op with the 1dmg clause) 875m range. Way shorter burst than regular AGL to make sure its not broken.
Lijian 90 to 30pts. Gosh, SF naplam are really cost inefficient now.
PF 98 to Tanke Shashou 85, become 95. 25AP, 1225m range. 2 HE with napalm, 70 accuracy. 8 rof.
NK marine 90 gain Metis ATGM. Base Metis buff to 16Ap
NK Marine 75 gets RPG-7v
Wz-550 Hj-9 changed to Hj-8A. Going to take away the ATGM strength of RD, that should be Israel
However, would give NK, Konkurs ATGM infantry as basic atgm is quite needed
Mi-25 gets 80 S-8 rocket, to make it a better fire support helo.
MD-500 AGL helo into recon, gain good optics

Gain Prototype PLZ-45 as 155mm 10 second artillery
Early ZTQ tanks cheaper.

Su-27sk become SMK. 160pts, 40 ecm, 4 R-77, 2 R-73, 2 per card. F16blcok 52 copy.
- RD should at least get a somewhat useful ASF. the f-16 is not even that competitive compare to 2 per card elite or 1 per card elite ASF
NK Mig-29 to Yugo's copy
J-7C -10 ecm
J-7H -20 ecm
B-5 nerf to 170pts, 2 per card, 1 card. Going to make it less cost efficient since it will have the same avail. as Finnish B-5 but much better.


Scandinavia- high armored IFV, powerful stationary infantry
CMW- Jack of all trade, strong airforce
BD- High DPS
EB- Mechanized shock infantry with strong medium and heavy tank
Yugo- all around good tanks and line infantry, good AA
Israel- cost efficient high AV tanks, but weak in AP. ATGM and airforce focus
EC- powerful super heavy tanks and mech,


So you basically want to flanderize each nation? Look the beauty of RD is that I can use each nation effectively with many different playstyles, giving them a few archetypical advantages(I. E US has the best planes, USSR has the most tanks) will significantly reduce tactical options.


I don't think i gave them archetypical advantages more than what eugen has already done in prototype choices ,almost arbitrary rof and accuracy of MG(minimi and mg3 being best for no reason), and cost (Jaak 90 and Finnish BMP-1 for example)

USSR still has the same amount of tanks. All other playstyle or spec is just as viable. I even made USSR marine more viable than now.
Its moto has been slightly nerfed from 2 cards of btr90 to 1, but it was never that viable, btr80a is still there, btr60-80 got slight buff

USA has better airforce but took away their best AA. So whats the difference now? Is just flipped from powerful long range AA to powerful airforce instead. I gave them Lav-25 to transport, so it made USA moto more viable, but not so powerful that you want to take USA moto over USA non spec half the time.

Rather, currently the game, not having a clear focus for each faction has made some redundant and useless, ex: dutch german, RD, BD.
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 3 Mar 2018 05:20

ppd401 wrote:So you basically want to flanderize each nation? Look the beauty of RD is that I can use each nation effectively with many different playstyles, giving them a few archetypical advantages(I. E US has the best planes, USSR has the most tanks) will significantly reduce tactical options.


wut

The USA has the best planes? What game are you playing?
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby another505 » Sat 3 Mar 2018 05:54

Fade2Gray wrote:
ppd401 wrote:So you basically want to flanderize each nation? Look the beauty of RD is that I can use each nation effectively with many different playstyles, giving them a few archetypical advantages(I. E US has the best planes, USSR has the most tanks) will significantly reduce tactical options.


wut

The USA has the best planes? What game are you playing?

I believe he is talking about my list of changes
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 3 Mar 2018 07:40

another505 wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
ppd401 wrote:So you basically want to flanderize each nation? Look the beauty of RD is that I can use each nation effectively with many different playstyles, giving them a few archetypical advantages(I. E US has the best planes, USSR has the most tanks) will significantly reduce tactical options.


wut

The USA has the best planes? What game are you playing?

I believe he is talking about my list of changes

Ah, herpa derp me.
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Sat 3 Mar 2018 11:32

another505 wrote:Mortar aim time increase to 12


This will make the game a lot more static.

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby another505 » Sat 3 Mar 2018 16:39

high_melanin wrote:
another505 wrote:Mortar aim time increase to 12


This will make the game a lot more static.

Just because of 2 second increase?
I also buffed some medium artillery from 30s to 20s
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