Community Balance Patch

high_melanin
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 15:26

Markenzwieback wrote:You might want to explain why the Spike as a concept is the problem and show how you would fix this. Instead of just writing a statement without any further argument and calling others clueless.


Spike travel time is too close to input delay. You cannot micro to counter it like the other atgms.

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Markenzwieback
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Fri 26 Jan 2018 15:29

high_melanin wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:You might want to explain why the Spike as a concept is the problem and show how you would fix this. Instead of just writing a statement without any further argument and calling others clueless.


Spike travel time is too close to input delay. You cannot micro to counter it like the other atgms.

See, thats how you get into a proper discussion on topic. Now you could have just witten something along the lines of
Spike travel time is too close to input delay, you cannot micro to counter it like the other ATGMs. Therefore we should primarily reduce SALH ATGM (Spike/Chu-Mat) speed before anything else.

from the get-go. ;)

That is a point I am not opposed to by the way. If you gonna touch ATGM speeds, you can easily have Maglans as an infantry-tab SF with full range Spike MR.
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 15:40

Markenzwieback wrote:Therefore we should primarily reduce SALH ATGM (Spike/Chu-Mat) speed before anything else.


More like Milan speed.

Markenzwieback wrote:That is a point I am not opposed to by the way. If you gonna touch ATGM speeds, you can easily have Maglans as an infantry-tab SF with full range Spike MR.


No, because atgm on 10 men squad is retarded.

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Vobule » Fri 26 Jan 2018 16:05

Markenzwieback wrote:Do you even understand what a discussion is? Just throwing around passive aggressive arguments won't contribute to that.
But better keep on throwing shit at the fan and later complain why Eugen doesn't take community efforts seriously.

Markenzwieback wrote:See, thats how you get into a proper discussion on topic.

The irony is quite tasty. I won't do the urobag list of aggressive comments, it would break Eugen servers again.

Markenzwieback wrote:
Vobule wrote:the hate boner against Finland and Yugoslavia is quite amazing too.

Mhm, interesting point. Especially when one of the major Yugo proponents can agree to those changes listed. You gonna go on about how both Finland and Yugo are perfectly balanced, too?

Yeah exactly, if he is ok with it do you think they are fine ? :P A lot of those changes are actually buffs and completely miss the point. RED DLC imbalance issues are solvable with 10 changes tops, while keeping their flavor, and very few of your propositions are it.

Markenzwieback wrote:You might want to explain why the Spike as a concept is the problem

Markenzwieback wrote: you can easily have Maglans as an infantry-tab SF with full range Spike MR

:lol:

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Fri 26 Jan 2018 16:32

Vobule wrote:Yeah exactly, if he is ok with it do you think they are fine ? :P A lot of those changes are actually buffs and completely miss the point. RED DLC imbalance issues are solvable with 10 changes tops, while keeping their flavor, and very few of your propositions are it.

Just list them than.

Vobule wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:You might want to explain why the Spike as a concept is the problem

Markenzwieback wrote: you can easily have Maglans as an infantry-tab SF with full range Spike MR

:lol:

Considering that, under the circumstances he provided, the Spike would be roughly the same speed as the Milan, I do think a 10-man Maglan squad without recon bonus would be strong enough to warrant flavor and not be too powerful. Remember, they are 21AP and its primarily the retarded speed combined with recon bonus that made/makes them overpowered.
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 16:34

Markenzwieback wrote: Remember, they are 21AP and its primarily the retarded speed combined with recon bonus that made/makes them overpowered.


And enough HP to survive the return fire from tanks.

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Fri 26 Jan 2018 17:32

high_melanin wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote: Remember, they are 21AP and its primarily the retarded speed combined with recon bonus that made/makes them overpowered.


And enough HP to survive the return fire from tanks.

True. But you have to keep in mind that a player
a) has time to react properly before the missile reaches the tank
b) can use that time to turn the front towards the thread (only very few tanks above 50 points will instantly die to 21AP)
c) put up a smoke screen before the second missile will be able to connect
d) properly see the Maglan's position after they fired (no recon/stealth bonus)
e) can make use of artillery and mortar HE after they spotted the Maglans

All in all I think that Maglan, as a single-card special force in the infantry tab and with slower Spike missiles, would be alright. Keep in mind that Israel, as a deck, doesn't have high-AP infantry and when their other toys (mainly Merkavas) get nerfed, they need some sort of powerful anti-tank option.

Before you mention Pereh and Hafiz: Any player with half a brain can easily counter these two with a pair of mortars. Extensive use of smoke once one is employed almost always renders it a dead investment.
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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 17:40

Markenzwieback wrote:Stuff...


Swap the spike with an high AP weapon. Fixed.

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby XanderTuron » Fri 26 Jan 2018 17:43

high_melanin wrote:
Swap the spike with an high AP weapon. Fixed.

And what high AP weapon do you propose to replace the Spike with?
My mouth is moving, but nothing relevant is coming out. Also I cannot guarantee that my research is perfect or even remotely accurate.

I have low quality Wargame Red Dragon casts on my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/XanderTuron

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Re: Community Balance Patch

Postby high_melanin » Fri 26 Jan 2018 17:45

XanderTuron wrote:
high_melanin wrote:
Swap the spike with an high AP weapon. Fixed.

And what high AP weapon do you propose to replace the Spike with?


DLC time frame is between 2010 and 2015, I bet israel has something that can get more than 21AP.

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