DLC Balance Patch

Fodder
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DLC Balance Patch

Postby Fodder » Sat 12 May 2018 19:11

DLC Balance Patch
I always see people stating DLCs are P2W or Madmat has to eat and stuff like that so, I created a set of buffs and nerfs to get DLCs back in line with the old nations while using realism and balance. I know Wargame stopped development but maybe in a future when Eugen create a Wargame 4 and import old nations to that game. I'm open to criticism and feedback, criticize me nicely I worked very hard on it.

Generic
When DLC were released they introduce alot of new things like smoke MLRS and recon in recon. But some coalitions were left out and never got these things mostly coalitions with W. Germany in them. Also Norway and Denmark don't have naval infantry which makes them handicap when using marine spec.
Spoiler : :
- 16AP Regular Line Infantry standardized
- BD and RD gets smoke MLRS
- West Germany and Scandinavia gets Recon INF in Recon Vehicles
- Availability changes across the boards for tanks (from Urogards thread: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=57789)
- Give Denmark and Norway Naval Infantry


Netherlands
Netherlands M752 is out of scale and SRBM were denied by Eugen in ALB so rerole it into a logistic unit or something within scale. Follow by inconsistency fixes.
(viewtopic.php?f=91&t=15821&start=10#p102014)
Spoiler : :
- Rerole M752 Lance
- M109A3 stat clone other M109A3
- M113 C&V 25mm increase accuracy from 25 to 30, Fuel and autonomy are inverted
- Bo-105 SNEB reduce speed from 260 to 240
- F-16A Block 1 turn radius reduce from 400 to 350


Israel
Israel units are better than their NATO counterparts. So nerf them to the similar NATO unit. Zelda get priced to 10 points and buff accordingly so no more comparing to other m113. BAZ Meshupar program was completed in 2005 which is way too OOTF, so I think it's better to rerole to something within ITF or give it to another nation.
Spoiler : :
- Zelda front armor increase from 2AV to 3AV, and price fixed from 5$ to 10$
- Machbet range reduce from 2800 to 2625
- Merkava 3D BAZ price fixed from 180$ to 185$
- HVMS HE increase from 0 to 2
- Maglan's number of soldiers increased from 5 to 10, price increased from 35$ to 40$
- DJAPAS OREV stat clone M151A2
- Replace or give BAZ Meshupar to a different nation (Optional)


Finland
Finland's AIR Tab weakness will be emphasize more after the nerfs. Finnish Spike is OOTF and Finland already have a ATGM ITF (Konkurs). Spike will then be Israel's flavor. XA-185KT was originally planned for armor divisions and heavily nerf for authenticity. ITO96 was a debt payment from the USSR when it collapsed and since ROK and Sweden can't get T-80 I think it's fair to remove it. Also Buk can't be reroled because no other nation used it and Buk-M1-2 is OOTF. Finland still to this day don't own any Mig-29. Charioteer glacis is 62mm RHA. Follow by alot of inconsistency changes and price changes.
Spoiler : :
- Standardize all Kvkk 62
- T-72 KOPA Turret gets aligned with chassis
- Replace PstOhj 94, OOTF (2000)
- Mi-8KT reduce speed from 280 to 250, and increase aim time from 0.2 to 1 sec
- XA-185KT rof reduce from 374 to less than M242 Bushmaster 1, AP reduce from 4 to 3, loses amphibious ability and restricted to recon infantry & panssarijääkäri only.
- Sergei Mod price fixed from 30$ to 35$
- Remove ITO96
- RAKH 76 price fixed from 75$ to 80$
- Telak 91 price fixed 110$ to 115$
- Erikoisrajajaakari price fixed from 35$ to higher than SAS
- Musti suppression reduce
- Charioteer front armor reduce from 5 to 3
- J 35F loadout reduce from 8x500kg bombs to 4x500kg bombs (J 35F can only carry 4x500kg)
- Hawk 51 reduce speed from 900 to 750
- Mig-29 speed reduce from 1000 to 900 and given to North Korea or Poland
- Replace AIM-120, OOTF (1998)


Yugoslavia
Yugoslavia's new weakness will be transports after the buffs and nerfs. Yugoslavia historically never had wheel APC besides BOV which was never deploy outside the country and Eugen doesn't give trucks to regular infantry. Yugoslavia will not have any 10 points transports after the armor buffs. OT-60 series is 14.5mm resistant, BVP M-80 series is 20mm rounds resistant, and M-84 series use T-72 autoloaders. BVP M-96 VIDRA is OOTF. SVLR M-77 Oganj never used napalm rockets. More inconsistency and price changes.

Spoiler : :
- OT-60P front armor increase from 1AV to 3AV
- OT-60PB front armor increase from 1AV to 3AV, and price fixed from 10$ to 15$
- OT TAB 71 can displace in water instead of gliding over it like Jesus
- BVP M-80A front armor increase from 3AV to 4AV, and price fixed from 15$ to 20$
- BVP M-80A1 VIDRA front armor increase from 3AV to 4AV, and price fixed from 20$ to 25$
- BVP M-96 VIDRA front armor increase from 3AV to 4AV, and price increase from 25$ to 30$
- IBV M-80AI and LT M-80A POLO front armor increased from 3AV to 4AV
- SVLR M-94 Plamen-S Suppression reduce from 312 to 291
- SVLR M-77 Oganj HE increase from 1 to 7, and NPLM remove
- SO-155 Nora-B gets SMK rounds
- T-55A izvidjac price fixed from 25$ to 30$ ( https://prnt.sc/ioooar )
- M-84 series rof reduce from 9 to 8
- N-62M Super Galeb speed reduce from 900 to 750


http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/A ... KK-62.html
viewtopic.php?f=155&t=57347
viewtopic.php?f=155&t=60466&start=190
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/yugoslavia
https://www.scribd.com/document/73551817/NT-Spike
http://www.airvectors.net/avf15_2.html
Last edited by Fodder on Mon 25 Jun 2018 03:38, edited 139 times in total.

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Markenzwieback
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Re: DLC Imbalance Patch

Postby Markenzwieback » Sat 12 May 2018 20:44

1) Haven't we discussed this like a hundred times already?
2) You missed the two most important ones even (23AP tank and 10s arty out of Finland mech).
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Fodder
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Re: DLC Imbalance Patch

Postby Fodder » Sun 13 May 2018 00:16

Markenzwieback wrote:1) Haven't we discussed this like a hundred times already?
2) You missed the two most important ones even (23AP tank and 10s arty out of Finland mech).

+1

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Re: DLC balance Patch

Postby Sleksa » Sun 13 May 2018 14:57

Fodder wrote:DLC balance Patch
I always see people stating DLCs are P2W or Madmat has to eat and stuff like that so these are a set of buffs and nerfs to get DLCs back in line with vanilla nations which is both realistic and balance. I know Wargame stopped development but maybe in a future when Eugen decide to import the same units to a future Wargame 4. I'm open to feedback and criticism but don't judge too hard.

General
- 16AP Regular Line Infantry standardized
- BD and RD gets smoke MLRS
- EC, Scandinavia, Landjut, and DGC gets Recon INF in Recon Vehicles


This is all well and good but the rest just looks like you had a few too many while writing.

Not only are you retainining entente being out of line but you just go ahead and straight up buff it alongside a few already op things. Buffing the kvkk 62 is a great example since it outperforms any mg at line level by a mile as well as retaining the xa-185kt as is (with what i guess is a theoretical rof nerf). I'm also especially fond of the logic of removing f-18 aim-120 as ootf (when the first operational amraam slingers in europe were in the field by 2004-5) while retaining the l-19 as is.
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Fodder
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Re: DLC balance Patch

Postby Fodder » Sun 13 May 2018 20:11

Sleksa wrote:Not only are you retainining entente being out of line but you just go ahead and straight up buff it alongside a few already op things. Buffing the kvkk 62 is a great example since it outperforms any mg at line level by a mile as well as retaining the xa-185kt as is (with what i guess is a theoretical rof nerf). I'm also especially fond of the logic of removing f-18 aim-120 as ootf (when the first operational amraam slingers in europe were in the field by 2004-5) while retaining the l-19 as is.


Alot of things for Entente were for realism but if you have any suggestions feel free give feedback.
Kvkk 62 irl had rpm of 1100 and chambers 7.62 almost identical to mg3.
XA-185KT, I nerf AP and rof because bushmaster 2 had less rpm than bushmaster 1 irl and i think bushmaster 2 is the only 30mm autocannon with 4AP. Other than that i didn't know wut to do with it.
F-18 loadout is several years too far for a game ending in 1991 than a prototype plane entering production in the following year.

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Re: DLC balance Patch

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 13 May 2018 21:16

Fodder wrote:i didn't know wut to do with it.

Do you think, perhaps, that this might mean you're not the correct person to make balance changes. Or realism changes when you're supposed to be making balance changes.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Fodder
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Re: DLC balance Patch

Postby Fodder » Sun 13 May 2018 22:44

FrangibleCover wrote:Do you think, perhaps, that this might mean you're not the correct person to make balance changes. Or realism changes when you're supposed to be making balance changes.

Maybe I word it wrong, "I couldn't of think any other minor changes that wouldn't cause a riot"
Maybe but most of these are things that you said were imbalance or OP lol
viewtopic.php?f=155&t=60466&start=190nb
Last edited by Fodder on Wed 23 May 2018 01:13, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: DLC Balance Patch

Postby captaincarnage » Sun 13 May 2018 22:46

These balance threads and the people who think a community balance patch is going to be anything other than an irrelevant distraction are deluded.
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

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Re: DLC balance Patch

Postby Sleksa » Sun 13 May 2018 22:50

Fodder wrote:
Sleksa wrote:Not only are you retainining entente being out of line but you just go ahead and straight up buff it alongside a few already op things. Buffing the kvkk 62 is a great example since it outperforms any mg at line level by a mile as well as retaining the xa-185kt as is (with what i guess is a theoretical rof nerf). I'm also especially fond of the logic of removing f-18 aim-120 as ootf (when the first operational amraam slingers in europe were in the field by 2004-5) while retaining the l-19 as is.


Alot of things for Entente were for realism but if you have any suggestions feel free give feedback.
Kvkk 62 irl had rpm of 1100 and chambers 7.62 almost identical to mg3.
XA-185KT, I nerf AP and rof because bushmaster 2 had less rpm than bushmaster 1 irl and i think bushmaster 2 is the only 30mm autocannon with 4AP. Other than that i didn't know wut to do with it.
F-18 loadout is several years too far for a game ending in 1991 than a prototype plane entering production in the following year.


-kvkk fires 7.62x39, mg3 fires 7.62x51. This is also a non-argument to the fact that line kvkk outperforms every other line mg and is the kind of reasoning for why wargame endured years of mg3men being several magnitudes better than anything else even in the hands of scandinavian reservists.

-"game ending in 1991" would be a good argument if we didn't have rafales, typhoons, gripens, tigers, caesar, 2a5, leclerc, micas, strv122, nasams, t72bu, eryx, crotale ng, adats, oh ninja,biho, marksman, m1a2 and so on. It makes very little sense to talk about 1991 as a magic reason for a hornet with amraams being an affront to god when we have rafales flying in mid 2000's loadouts as well as gripen a model flying in a loadout it can't use even today.

Regarding baltic front & Finland, the bare minimum to get them brought back in line would be like 6 small changes:

1) standardize kvkk line version because it's out of line with other mgs
2) remove the mig-29 salvo fire or redo the loadout to something like 2xs24 + 4x s-80 (units in don't generally get taken out, as witnessed by the original hate for chimera).
3) xa-185kt restricted to recon infantry & panssarijääkäri only, availability to 1 card only (original planned use was for the second finnish armor brigade to use this variant) and cost to 20p
4) mi-8kt rockets removed, overall dps and price brought in line to something like a gazelle canon
5) pstohj 94 (israeli versions as well as chu-mat) speed normalised to saclos level
6) hawk 51 speed to 750

That's really all it takes. More could obviously be done and fiddled with, but these changes would very likely already be enough for them to be about equal to other non dlc coalition decks.
Last edited by Sleksa on Tue 26 Jun 2018 17:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DLC Balance Patch

Postby molnibalage » Mon 14 May 2018 10:32

Fodder wrote:DLC Balance Patch
I always see people stating DLCs are P2W or Madmat has to eat and stuff like that so these are a set of buffs and nerfs to get DLCs back in line with vanilla nations which is both realistic and balance. I know Wargame stopped development but maybe in a future when Eugen decide to import the same units to a future Wargame 4. I'm open to feedback and criticism but don't judge too hard.

General
- 16AP Regular Line Infantry standardized
- BD and RD gets smoke MLRS
- EC, Scandinavia, Landjut, and DGC gets Recon INF in Recon Vehicles
- Availability changes across the boards for all tanks (from Urogards thread: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=57789)
- Give Denmark and Norway Naval Infantry

Yugoslavia
- OT-60P front armor increase from 1AV to 3AV (OT-60 series is 14.5mm resistance)
- OT-60PB front armor increase from 1AV to 3AV, and price fixed from 10$ to 15$
- BVP M-80A front armor increase from 3AV to 4AV, and price fixed from 15$ to 20$ (BVP M-80 series can withstand 20mm rounds)
- BVP M-80A1 VIDRA front armor increase from 3AV to 4AV, and price fixed from 20$ to 25$
- Remove BVP M-96 VIDRA, OOTF
- IBV M-80AI and LT M-80A POLO front armor increased from 3AV to 4AV
- SO-155 Nora-B range increase from 23800m to 41300m, price fixed from 120$ to 125$ (IRL effective range 56km)
- SVLR M-94 Plamen-S Suppression reduce from 312 to 291
- SVLR M-77 Oganj HE increase from 1 to 7, and NPLM remove (Never Had NPLM Rockets)
- T-55A izvidjac price fixed from 25$ to 30$ (https://prnt.sc/ioooar)
- M-84 series rof reduce from 9 to 8 (T-72 autoloader)
- N-62M Super Galeb speed reduce from 900 to 750

Finland
- All Kvkk 62 rof increase from 491 to 575, and suppression increase from 40 to 55
- Remove PstOhj 94, OOTF (2000)
- BMP-1 rof reduce from 10 to 9
- BMP-2 stat clones East German SPz BMP-2
- Mi-8KT reduce speed from 280 to 250, and increase aim time from 0.2 to 1 sec
- XA-185KT rof reduce from 374 to less than M242 Bushmaster 1, and AP reduce from 4 to 3
- Sergei Mod price fixed from 30$ to 35$
- Remove ITO 96 (was given from USSR after the soviet union collapsed)
- Telak 91 price fixed 110$ to 115$
- T-72M1PAIV removed from mechanized decks
- Erikoisrajajaakari price fixed from 35$ to higher than SAS
- Musti suppression reduce
- Charioteer price fixed from 15$ to 20$
- Hawk 51 reduce speed
- Remove Mig-29 (Finland never owned any)
- Remove AIM-120, OOTF (1998)

Israel
- Remove Spike-LR Teams, OOTF (1997)
- Zelda front armor increase from 2AV to 3AV, and price fixed from 5$ to 10$ (can withstand 12.7mm)
- All TCM reduce accuracy from 25 to 20 (uses gun sights)
- Machbet range reduce from 2800 to 2625
- Merkava 3D BAZ price fixed from 180$ to 200$
- Maglan's number of soldiers increased from 5 to 10, price increased from 35$ to 40$
- Remove BAZ Meshupar, OOTF (1998)

Netherland
- Remove M752 Lance (It's a nuke)
- M113 C&V 25mm increase accuracy from 25 to 30
- Bo-105 SNEB reduce speed from 260 to 240
- F-16A Block 1 turn radius reduce from 400 to 350

viewtopic.php?f=155&t=57347
viewtopic.php?f=155&t=60466&start=190
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/A ... KK-62.html
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/yugoslavia
https://www.scribd.com/document/73551817/NT-Spike
http://www.airvectors.net/avf15_2.html

If ever will be future WG it has to get new engine because of the limitations of the current therefor many recommendation in many areas are simply likely pointless. The current flat ECM modifier, the range idependent tube arty dispersion, some basic modeling approach is simply not good or funny. Just look for ex. MG accuracy for inf. vs. MGs on vehicles... Or RPG range and ACC values...
Deck system is also funny where you can bring more helos than IFVs on the battlefiled etc...

Also funny you would remove te Spike but you would give insane and OTTF acc and range for a YUG gun besides lots of YUG buff. YUG is the most ridiculous nation in WG DB ever... Has better units than superpowers...

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