Eugen Systems Forums

Sleksa wrote:1) standardize kvkk line version because it's out of line with other mgs
2) remove the mig-29 salvo fire or redo the loadout to something like 2xs24 + 4x s-80 (units in don't generally get taken out, as witnessed by the original hate for chimera).
3) xa-185kt restricted to recon infantry & panssarijääkäri only, availability to 1 card only (original planned use was for the second finnish armor division to use this variant) and cost to 20p
4) mi-8kt rockets removed, overall dps and price brought in line to something like a gazelle canon
5) pstohj 94 (israeli versions as well as chu-mat) speed normalised to saclos level
6) hawk 51 speed to 750

+1

Sleksa wrote:-"game ending in 1991" would be a good argument if we didn't have rafales, typhoons, gripens, tigers, caesar, 2a5, leclerc, micas, strv122, nasams, t72bu, eryx, crotale ng, adats, oh ninja,biho, marksman, m1a2 and so on. It makes very little sense to talk about 1991 as a magic reason for a hornet with amraams being an affront to god when we have rafales flying in mid 2000's loadouts as well as gripen a model flying in a loadout it can't use even today.

Yeah, thats why we dont need anymore ootf prototypes. I wish eugen was more strict about whats allowed and what isn't.

molnibalage wrote:Also funny you would remove te Spike but you would give insane and OTTF acc and range for a YUG gun besides lots of YUG buff. YUG is the most ridiculous nation in WG DB ever... Has better units than superpowers...

Well about better units than superpowers, I would love it if the old nations were buff to the same level as DLCs but this thread is focus on DLC nations only. Yugo new weakness is transports, no wheel or 10pts APC because BOV was never deploy outside the country.

Id be happy enough if all nations had units that covered any glaring holes in unit roles.
So all national decks are viable without being chessy.
Example, odd Poland doesn't even have a Mortar

I understand national bonus is greater for nations that are perceived as worse by unit choice available ingame.

DLC doesn't annoy me tbh.
I think inclusion of Yugo & Finland has reduced the amount of blufor stacking slightly (purely subjective by me).

Also ASF 2 cards available standardised.
(Should card availability even be there?
Not often you would take more than 2 of something in a balanced deck?)

If you want to balance the DLC nation, you should not bother with trying to "restore" authenticity. That got thrown out of the window years ago.

By trying to appeal any kind of roleplayers you are making it harder for no real gain.

Fodder wrote:Finland

- BMP-1 rof reduce from 10 to 9
- BMP-2 stat clones East German SPz BMP-2
- Remove ITO 96 (was a debt payment from the USSR)
- Give Mig-29 to North Korea (Finland never owned Mig-29)
- Remove AIM-120, OOTF (1998)

While wanting authenticity at the same time as balance, you have to remember that FDF removed the poor autoloaders from the BMP-1 and replaced them with an extra crewmember functioning as the loader, which resulted in 1 RPM increase in the fire rate.

The Finnish BMP-2 are Soviet made BMP-2 obr. 1986, so they aren't same as the GDR BMP-2, which was of the earlier variant. The stats are completely correct, after all the FDF purchase was made in 1988, 5 years later than the GDR purchase.

ITO 96, while it indeed didn't cost anything to Finland due to the debt USSR had, it nevertheless won the anti-air system competition. There's speculation that NASAMS 1 would have won it if it weren't so that the Buk-M1 (note - it's the exact Soviet/Russian variant, not the export variant) were offered, with an option to accept it as a debt payment.

MiG-29 was planned for purchase due to political reasons in the late 1980's, so that's why it's included in the game - same as the RAKH 91 (whose purchase had although already been financed). The original plan, had USSR not fallen, was to buy 20 fighters from the USSR and 20-40 from the west. The MiG-29 was offered by the USSR for purchase, but it lost to the F/A-18C/D now that USSR fell and the de facto political requirement to divide arms purchases between WP and the west became obsolete. After the MiG-29 lost, Yeltsin even offered the MiG-31 at a very affordable price, but the offer was turned down.

The AIM-120 is no more OOTF than Gripen A carrying it, Eurofighter carrying it or Rafale carrying MICA EM. Actually those had their respective missiles integrated later than the F/A-18C, and at least with Gripen and Eurofighter the AMRAAM was taken into use later than when FiAF introduced the AMRAAM to service.

Bascially what Sleska has proposed would put Finland on par with non DLC nations with the minumum of faff.

Yugoslavia would be pruned down to size simply by removing them from Entente and making a few minor stat and where necessary price tweaks to some of the excessively over modeled units.

As others have pointed out the drive for authenticity is rather pointless, if you want authenticity go play steel division, its a role players wet dream its just not much fun compared with Wargame.

Patton, T-62, Japanese tank line could use love, and I personally think Light Rifles being available in Mechanized would be really neat.

I'm not very active, but the game seems extremely balanced as it is.

QUAD wrote:the game seems extremely balanced as it is.

lol

J0h1F wrote:While wanting authenticity at the same time as balance, you have to remember that FDF removed the poor autoloaders from the BMP-1 and replaced them with an extra crewmember functioning as the loader, which resulted in 1 RPM increase in the fire rate.

The Finnish BMP-2 are Soviet made BMP-2 obr. 1986, so they aren't same as the GDR BMP-2, which was of the earlier variant. The stats are completely correct, after all the FDF purchase was made in 1988, 5 years later than the GDR purchase.

I cant find anything about new autoloader in finnish bmp-2 can provide some evidence pls

Razzmann wrote:BMP-2

Razzman, why did u make Finnish BMP-2 identical to GDR's BMP-2 in FBM?

J0h1F wrote: ITO 96, MIG-29, and AIM-120

- Buk, wasnt the only vehicle given by the ussr as a debt payment but its the only one included
- MIG-29, Finland still to this day dont have any MIG-29 or R-77 and finland also dont own any bm-27
- AIM-120 is ootf, It makes more sense to replace it with something within timeframe.

captaincarnage wrote: Bascially

I think removing Entente is too drastic, instead nerf their Transports so it becomes their weakness because historcally Yugo didn't have a proper gunship or wheel APC besides BOV. Not really overmodeled because now they have the correct protection and performance. I h8 ww2.

Razzmann wrote: If

I'm not trying to make it realistic I'm just looking for realistic ways to nerf the DLCs

James-Bond wrote:Also

I kinda like that nations have some or little weakness it allows the Devs to be lazy lol, and historically Poland never had self propelled mortars during the cold war. ASF 2 Cards available? maybe, I might add it if available is problem with DLCs or if it's something DLCs have that other nations don't

I updated it with everyone's suggestions
What do you guys think about Eugen giving Israeli's Prototype Sholef to Finland?

Fodder wrote:What do you guys think about Eugen giving Finland's prototype artillery to Israel?

Fodder wrote:Razzman, why did u make Finnish BMP-2 identical to GDR's BMP-2 in FBM?

Because it costs the same.