Support, the most loathed players?

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James-Bond
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Support, the most loathed players?

Postby James-Bond » Fri 25 May 2018 02:01

Do support players get badly represented?
https://youtu.be/Zn3Gyz-sOK4

I initially considered a support deck for AA & logistics to be a good team player. Never been a big fan of mass arty. But was like no, limits my deck elsewhere.
I get along fine with 2x top tier arty + FOB. Or Mortars instead.

To me they seemed to be the most hated player type.

Seems the most useless players types are drawn to it?
Typical support player: They spend all initial points on artillery. No cvs, no recon, no infantry? Sometimes cheeky and not even get a FOB.
Then at the start the Rain ammunition down on a popular starting road.
Depending on other teams awareness they may move out of the way. After that i have no idea what the get up except for draining resources. Buying more trash artillery And not moving artillery after firing. Then get countered.

Btw im not being salty, I understand opening arty can be tactical to slow down/ destroy units. This can allow forward land grabs to be done easier. Rare i get caught out by it.

Support players don't bother me tbh. I have good emphasis on recon. So I make sure I remove their recon. Then i make sure not group, move units around more.

Any good support players?
Am I being unfair?
Do they do a lot of un-noticed work?

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Mike
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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby Mike » Sat 26 May 2018 01:18

I had a great support player in a 10v10 once. Kept several players supplied, added to AA nets, funneled in infantry and used a group of about 8 to 10 203mm arty to one shot any hard targets marked :lol:
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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby captaincarnage » Sat 26 May 2018 01:28

I would like to go on record to say that i am an "excellent" support deck player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd2njUzXvlA
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby Nerdfish » Wed 30 May 2018 22:52

You usually don't need a support deck to support. There is more than enough arty and AA in a general deck to keep your friends covered.
General Decks also give you planes which is an excellent way to pull a buddy out of fire in a pinch.

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby James-Bond » Wed 6 Jun 2018 02:43

Mike wrote:I had a great support player in a 10v10 once. Kept several players supplied, added to AA nets, funneled in infantry and used a group of about 8 to 10 203mm arty to one shot any hard targets marked :lol:


Thats sounds great and terrifying :lol:

captaincarnage wrote:I would like to go on record to say that i am an "excellent" support deck player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd2njUzXvlA

Interesting video

Nerdfish wrote:You usually don't need a support deck to support. There is more than enough arty and AA in a general deck to keep your friends covered.
General Decks also give you planes which is an excellent way to pull a buddy out of fire in a pinch.

I agree,
my usual support tab set up.
1 card of Arty= 2 units of accurate artillery (AS-90 / Ondava)
3 cards of AA; Anti-plane, long anti-helo, cheap but good non radar AA.

Bought my Arty a bit later in the Game. With the objective of countering their Arty, as they were spamming hard.
Counter.jpg
Counter.jpg (483.09 KiB) Viewed 512 times


- I like mortars, very good at supporting infantry assaults. Short range is annoying when you spot targets further away.
- Dislike MRLS, just too wasteful imo (USA delete button is an exception)
- I think cheap & inaccurate arty are trash.
- the 203mm? Arty is just too slow with aim time and reload for my personal liking.
- Favourite is the accurate arty, very helpful when used with recon to take out soft targets. especially when infiltrating recon behind enemy lines

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby molnibalage » Thu 7 Jun 2018 13:53

Nerdfish wrote:You usually don't need a support deck to support. There is more than enough arty and AA in a general deck to keep your friends covered.
General Decks also give you planes which is an excellent way to pull a buddy out of fire in a pinch.

I agree,
my usual support tab set up.
1 card of Arty= 2 units of accurate artillery (AS-90 / Ondava)
3 cards of AA; Anti-plane, long anti-helo, cheap but good non radar AA.

To being all around support you need suppor deck to have MLRS, ligth mortar / heavy mortar, top tier arty and at least 3 types of AAA/SAMS (long range, med range, IR or AAA). For high base ACC units the +1XP has bigger impact on the calc CTH as well as on impact circle of arty.

- I like mortars, very good at supporting infantry assaults. Short range is annoying when you spot targets further away.

Below 120 mm none of mortars have any effect on inf. in city blocks. Only problem heavy mortars have low aim time while 105 mm arty has long.
(This has not been adjusted since relase of WG, another stupidity in WG universe...)

- Dislike MRLS, just too wasteful imo (USA delete button is an exception)

In 4v4 game many times you need because you can stun + panic whole areas. With much smaller and weaker force you can attack because your max morale vs lowes morale makes a big difference. In 2v2 normal or 1v1 normal games of course you do not need MLRS. Or arty at all... ---> Support deck is usefu only in 4v4 or higher non tactical games.

- I think cheap & inaccurate arty are trash.

See above. In case you need area saturation you can use it as well as smoke sometimes is very useful. You can lock out from combat units and tanks to old and weak modeling as I can recall even RAD SAMs need LOS. You can kill LOS of any SAMs with smoke against helos...

- the 203mm? Arty is just too slow with aim time and reload for my personal liking.

The only role of 203 mm arty is CV sniping, so far I have never used it because top tier arty can do the same role.

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby James-Bond » Thu 7 Jun 2018 20:49

@molnibalage
Very interesting comments, may try out a support deck soon.
Good explaination of the different artillery roles.
Would it be possible to see a 'good' support deck?
I'd imagine being a skillful support player, you can choose the most appropiate arty tool the scenario at hand.
I appreciate when I see a well executed smoke assault coordination.

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby molnibalage » Fri 8 Jun 2018 10:34

James-Bond wrote:@molnibalage
Very interesting comments, may try out a support deck soon.
Good explaination of the different artillery roles.
Would it be possible to see a 'good' support deck?
I'd imagine being a skillful support player, you can choose the most appropiate arty tool the scenario at hand.
I appreciate when I see a well executed smoke assault coordination.

Long time I do not play with WG but so far the only usable support deck was USSR. I will reinstall WG for deck builing but I cannot post sooner than Sunday evening.

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby jhfts » Fri 8 Jun 2018 10:54

James-Bond wrote:Do support players get badly represented?

...

Seems the most useless players types are drawn to it?
Typical support player: They spend all initial points on artillery. No cvs, no recon, no infantry? Sometimes cheeky and not even get a FOB.
Then at the start the Rain ammunition down on a popular starting road.
Depending on other teams awareness they may move out of the way. After that i have no idea what the get up except for draining resources. Buying more trash artillery And not moving artillery after firing. Then get countered.


You don't have to play support to be a dick in 10 v 10. Sure, there are people who simply load up on MRLs, suck up supplies, and don't contribute. But this type of selfish behavior isn't necessarily limited to support; I've played with people who go airborne, and never put down a single ground unit all game (and then rage quit when their favorite toys get shot down).

Nerdfish wrote:You usually don't need a support deck to support. There is more than enough arty and AA in a general deck to keep your friends covered.
General Decks also give you planes which is an excellent way to pull a buddy out of fire in a pinch.


The reduction in artillery dispersion is really useful for some national decks. MSTA, for example, is really quite inaccurate at low veterancy levels, so having a boost in that regard helps to shorten the time it takes to do real damage with your artillery.

Also, having a few slots of cheap AA units is very useful for defusing massed helicopter attacks, or for perimeter security.

James-Bond wrote:Any good support players?
Am I being unfair?
Do they do a lot of un-noticed work?


I play a great deal of support, and I like to imagine that I'm at least half-decently good at it.

Playing support well can be very rewarding, but you have to take the 'support' concept seriously. Yes, sniping with artillery is important, but that's only part of the role. Whenever you can, it's your job to get supplies out when your teammates' tanks are out of gas, or their infantry squads are holding on by a thread. You're pushing out AAA and SAMs, and refilling your allies' when they run dry. You're holding up the flanks and running behind-the-lines security. And, if there's anything left in the piggy bank, you're trickling out reinforcements to help hold up sagging portions of the line.

I think that it's something where you really can't just do your own thing during the game - you kind of have to be 'on call'. I often tell my teammates that I'm bringing the big guns at the start of the match, and that they should mark targets that they want hit.

There is a lot of un-noticed work. In 10 v 10, for instance, people will happily help themselves to your FOBs with their gunships, without ever asking where it all came from. People don't notice if you're the one who's suppressing or destroying enemy artillery with counter-battery fire - they just complain when it's not there, and they're getting hammered by the enemy guns.

molnibalage wrote:Long time I do not play with WG but so far the only usable support deck was USSR. I will reinstall WG for deck builing but I cannot post sooner than Sunday evening.


Commonwealth is the top in my books. It's the only one I dare risk in a 1 v 1 match.

1) Decent artillery choices (AS-90, M110, Cluster MLRS, + lots of speedy 81mm mortars)
2) Lots of good non-radar SAMs (Rapier, Stormer HVM, ADATS)
3) Arguably best tank selection available for Support (2 cards Chieftain Mk. 11 + 2 cards Chieftain Mk. 10)
4) Good aircraft options

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Re: Support, the most loathed players?

Postby molnibalage » Fri 8 Jun 2018 15:40

jhfts wrote:Commonwealth is the top in my books. It's the only one I dare risk in a 1 v 1 match.

1) Decent artillery choices (AS-90, M110, Cluster MLRS, + lots of speedy 81mm mortars)
2) Lots of good non-radar SAMs (Rapier, Stormer HVM, ADATS)
3) Arguably best tank selection available for Support (2 cards Chieftain Mk. 11 + 2 cards Chieftain Mk. 10)
4) Good aircraft options

To me also available tanks are the defining point for a support deck besides the available options is SUP. USSR is the most all around nation is SUP as in RL because lots of AA asset and arty types.

Considering tanks.

Chieftain Mk.11. 14 FAV is good, 19AP is amazing the problemits speed and RoF but at least has 4HE which counts lot against inf in cover. If the supression of artys is not coupled wit stun is very hard to "chase" the enemy with 40 km/h speed.


In USSR deck I use T-62MV-1 and T-72A.
T-72A is very good fire support (viva 4HE and high RoF) and from close can deal even low tier heavies and with side hits can kill anyting with high RoF.

T-62MV-1 is a tank/IFV eradicator with its ATGM and at least has 50 km/h speed. Its problem the low base ACC gun with low RoF but is better than nothing.

It is insane how cheap the T-62MV-1 as armored ATGM platfrom with limited fire support capability. Tha paper Sturm ATGM costs 45 or 50 CP as I can remember with no armor, no MG, no gun. It does not matter it has 12 missile because it has 0 chance to use them. T-62MV-1 is only 60 or 65 CP. For +10-15 more CP it has 12FAV with at least can survive 1-2 hits even from very powerful units and literally put into bracket anything with ATGM up to 17AV tank which cost much more. So against 2-3 K1 or M1IP you can send +1 T-62MV-1.

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