South African Armor in game.

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Joined: Tue 30 Mar 2021 15:05

South African Armor in game.

Postby Elan-M » Tue 30 Mar 2021 15:14

Hi everyone.
I’m gonna start by saying that I am glad and excited to see that South Africa will be added to Wargame. I have no doubt that Eugen (and whoever helps the devs outside of the company) will deliver an appreciably authentic roster.
However, tanks have always been my pet peeve in this game and, more importantly, tend to be essential units for competitive gameplay. As it is harder for Eugen to find data on modern tanks compared to units that are simpler to represent in game, I am writing this thread to provide the information I have gathered and how I would translate that into ingame stats.

This is not going to be a super detailed formal description of the real vehicles: I will only mention what is relevant for Wargame.

Centurion Mk 3 or 5:

Era: CAT C
Spoiler : :
Description: Just your run-off-the-mill 20pdr Centurion. Represents the vast majority of South African Centurions in the 1970s.

Stats: Identical to Canadian Centurion Mk 5 or Danish Centurion 84mm, BUT with a M1919 MMG on the roof instead of a .50 cal M2.

Centurion Mk 5A / Semel:

Era: CAT C
Spoiler : :
Description: Semel was a program to modernize the Centurion with a new powerpack for greater mobility. 35 were modified between supposedly 1974 and 1976. This features an AV-1790 gasoline engine and massively enlarged fuel capacity among other modifications. (The Skokiaan was a very small prototype run of 8 tanks very quickly upgraded to Semel standard, so are not mentioned here)

Stats: Identical to Mk 3 or 5 above BUT with 1400L fuel capacity, 50kph offroad speed and 200km range (sidenote: since ingame Centurions already have greater range, Eugen is free to do whatever it wants with it).

Olifant Mk 1:

Era: CAT C
Spoiler : :
Description: This is fundamentally the Sho’t Kal program applied to the South African tanks. The most relevant upgrades are the 105mm GT3 (L7) gun and the AVDS-1790 diesel engine. This entered service in late 1978 with production being 3 tanks/month (232 total between 1978 and 1984), making it a CAT C vehicle. Here it is using L52 APDS rounds. This had a handheld laser rangefinder. Contrary to popular thought the 105mm was already there on the Mk 1.

Stats: Same as Mk 5 above BUT:
- armament replaced by a 105mm GT3 gun with slightly greater accuracy compared to the usual 105mm Centurion due to the rangefinder. AP 11 (or 12 due to superior L52 ammo instead of L28). Carried 72 rounds IRL so could carry a bit more than other Cents ingame.
- offroad speed 45kph.
- fuel capacity 1240L, range 350km (range could be different in game).

Olifant Mk 1A:

Spoiler : :
Description: This was an improved version of the Olifant that corrected some flaws of the original vehicle. It introduced among other changes a new gunner’s sight with integrated laser rangefinder. Israeli M111 APFSDS ammunition was introduced as a response to improved enemy armor in the Angolan conflict. Entered service in 1983-85.

Stats: Same as Olifant Mk 1 BUT: even greater accuracy thanks to the new sight and integrated LRF. AP increased to 15 thanks to APFSDS.

Olifant Mk 1B:

Spoiler : :
Description: This was the first attempt at getting a radically improved tank, and is a complete redesign of the Centurion base, developed starting from 1985 and introduced in service in 1991. This should be the primary medium tank/workhorse for the SADF in game.
Mobility is vastly increased with the engine being uprated to 900hp and the suspension being replaced with torsion bars with greater vertical travel. Composite/spaced blocks are added to the front of the hull and turret and sides of the turret. The FCS was not improved much, only a ballistic computer was added at best. 44 were originally built.

Stats: Same as Mk 1A but:
- offroad speed improved to 60kph, fuel capacity increased to 1470L, range increased to 360km.

- armor: unknown but rated proof against 100mm ammunition. 12-14 frontally should be acceptable, sides could be increased to 7.
- firepower: AP increased to 16 and range increased to 2275m as per ingame policy (and because it could use Israeli M426 APFSDS). Depending on Eugen’s choice of the FCS configuration (I’d pick the modern one since the Cold War didn’t end here), accuracy should be slightly or massively increased over the Mk 1A (at this point maybe 50-65%). Stabilization should be increased too thanks to the smoother ride of the suspension and improved electric drive, but not beyond 45-50%.

Olifant Mk 1B Optimal:

CAT A Prototype

Spoiler : :
Description: This was a prototype made in 1994 with further improved armor and a seemingly new lower profile turret as part of the Olifant Mk 2 program. Depending on Eugen’s desires this could either be a further uparmored 105mm tank or it can fit the 120mm gun (I’d prefer the first option).

Stats: Same as Mk 1B (definitely with the modern FCS configuration), but with further increased front and side armor (preferably over 16 front and 8 sides). 120mm gun with high AP if this option is chosen. 17 AP if 105.


CAT A Prototype
Spoiler : :
Description: the Loggim was intended to be a brand new tank that wouldn’t suffer from the limitations of the Centurion’s old design. One technology demonstrator was built in 1992, but the end of the Border War and Cold War killed the project. Best candidate for a 120mm heavy/superheavy tank. Most likely K1A1/M1A1HC-tier or better.


Size: Big
Offroad speed: 70kph
Fuel capacity: 1600L
Range: 400km

Accuracy/Stabilizers: The TTD was regarded as being inferior to current world trend in terms of FCS, with the turret having stabilization issues. While not necessarily equal to the T-72M2 Moderna, the TTD should have somewhat inferior accuracy and stabilizers to the usual superheavys. Suggestion: 60/45% minimum.

Optics: Medium (this is the only 90’s SADF tank with thermal optics!)
ROF: 9 (there were two 8-round drums in the bustle that automatically give ammo to the loader, so you could argue for 10 for the memes but it’s no autoloader)
Ammo capacity: 22 ready in the turret, 32 in the hull (up to Eugen to determine the resulting ingame ammo capacity)
Armament: 105 or preferably 120mm GT6 gun with high AP. 2275m range. 7.62 GPMG secondary.

Armor: It is only said to reach 750mm RHAe frontally on the hull, but it is unknown if this is line-of-sight array thickness, HEAT or KE protection. It was said to be protected against 125mm ammunition. Overall protection should be high but not necessarily equal to the opposition. Suggestion: over 18 frontally.

Please feel free to send this to MadMat if you are directly in contact with him.

Have a nice day!

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