Polskie czołgi - dyskusja (po angielsku)

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Mr0Buggy
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Re: Polskie czołgi - dyskusja (po angielsku)

Postby Mr0Buggy » Mon 7 Oct 2013 23:34

Yet another update on the lineup, sorta not sure if I should continue with info digging and fact checking considering lack of MadMat's presence since his last post awhile ago.

Legend:
Existed Irl.
Existed Irl., and there were (some) chances a given nation would have bought it
Completely Sci Fi unit that could have happened.

Proposed Polish Tanks Lineup:

T-72S1
T-72B obr.1985 (with Kontakt-1 ERA and ATGM) - (It seems both T-72BA and T-72BV/T-72BW are incorrect designations)
T-72M1Z [Twardy M] (ERAWA ERA, model can be shared between all Twardy's)
T-72S1Z [Twardy S] (see above)
PT-91 Twardy (see above)

Proposed Czechoslovak Tanks Lineup:

T-72S
T-72S1
T-72M2 (without 2x20mm) (DYNAS ERA, also according to "Nowa Technika Wojskowa" #3/1995, T-72M2 lacks ATGM capability)
T-72M2 Moderna (with 1x30mm 2A42 autocannon) (see above)

Proposed East German Tanks Lineup:

T-72S (ATGM included)
T-72M1M (also ATGM capable)
T-72M1M fitted with ERAWA or DYNAS ERA

Note on T-72M1M/T-72M1M with ERAWA/DYNAS: According to what Flieger and I dig up and discussed, East Germany was purposely "shafted" with their own arms and equipment manufacturing, because idea of Germany (either of them) being able to arm up on it's own, was reminding everyone (other WP nations) of 1939 too much for comfort. Also, GDR wasn't doing so good economically either by then either (1989). That, combined with lack of local manufacturing capabilities makes it even less probable they would go for any T-80 variant anytime soon.
Anyway, since East Germany lacked any Tank production Plants and local Tank Repair facilities couldn't have possibly performed upgrades from T-72M1 to T-72M1M variant [afaik, it would require manufacture of new parts East Germany couldn't have manufactured due to aforementioned lack of facilities/industry, or just overall lack of experience for the tasks required], they would most likely be sent to Poland/CSSR for necessary works as Flieger have suggested. It would stand to reason, that along the usual upgrade to T-72M1M standard, Poland/CSSR would offer East Germans to outfit these tanks with ERA systems they themselves have developed [or at the very least with imported USSR made Kontakt-1], as a chance to milk the customer some more.

Either way, while fictional and "what if" on nearly Chimera like levels, ERA uparmored T-72M1M would imho. give East Germany a tank which could take moderate amount of punishment, which they would need in 1995 environment.

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[EUG]MadMat
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Re: Polskie czołgi - dyskusja (po angielsku)

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Wed 9 Oct 2013 01:34

Mr0Buggy wrote:considering lack of MadMat's presence since his last post awhile ago

Well, I would have rather be attending this post than the funerals I was earlier this week.

But thanks for compiling this list, I'll be reading it with interests ...

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Mr0Buggy
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Re: Polskie czołgi - dyskusja (po angielsku)

Postby Mr0Buggy » Wed 9 Oct 2013 07:23

Oh damn. Sorry to hear that man. My Condolences. Hope that they are in a better place.

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Re: Polskie czołgi - dyskusja (po angielsku)

Postby gathern » Wed 9 Oct 2013 18:13

Mr0Buggy here You have full history of PT-91 (in polish of course), btw in this article there is a lot also about our other polish T-72 modifications (like project "Wilk")
http://www.magnum-x.pl/czasopismasec/poligon/2620

Of course if You need full version of this paper I have pdf , just ping me on e-mail ;)

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Mr0Buggy
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Re: Polskie czołgi - dyskusja (po angielsku)

Postby Mr0Buggy » Wed 9 Oct 2013 19:08

gathern wrote:Mr0Buggy here You have full history of PT-91 (in polish of course), btw in this article there is a lot also about our other polish T-72 modifications (like project "Wilk")
http://www.magnum-x.pl/czasopismasec/poligon/2620

Of course if You need full version of this paper I have pdf , just ping me on e-mail ;)


I have it. Thanks for the concern.

Not fully relevant to this thread, but in "Nowa Technika Wojskowa" #3/1995 there is a simply put short comparison between Twardy and Moderna [next to a few pages long extensive comparison], in case anyone would be interested:

Spoiler : :
Original:
Image

Translation:
Image

NOTE: T-91A is mainly Expo shows variant. Difference from normal Twardy is 1000 hp engine as compared to 850 hp engine in original, FCS from SAGEM as opposed to Polish DRAWA, and minor improvements to the suspension. Moderna has exactly the same engine as original PT-91. PZL-Wola S-12U diesel with 850 hp.

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