Some questions and some information UPDATED

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themediocrity
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Some questions and some information UPDATED

Postby themediocrity » Fri 1 Nov 2013 23:51

I apologize for a somewhat disjointed post but I hope this can be informative for myself and others.

First some things I've learned that I haven't seen listed elsewhere and then some questions

UPDATED: 11/8/13


1. Fire rates are limited to 5 shots/second (300 RPM)
- you can specify something higher but the game will still use 5 shots/second for that weapon
-to get higher rates of fire add simultaneous shots (TirsSimultanes) in the ammunition descriptor (so an M163 gets 10 simultaneous shots and will then fire 50 rounds/second while not exceeding 5 shots/second). This can look a bit odd but it works well enough
-fire rates displayed in the armory will have nothing to do with the true fire rate if you take this approach.

2. To change the displayed distance scale change MultiplicateurMetreRTSVersDistanceFeedbackTactique in gfx/gdconstanteoriginal.ndfbin
-reality appears to be ~0.12-0.13
-this change simply changes the displayed length scale but does not change how far units shoot (so if you change to reality the displayed range of tanks drops to ~800m but the maximum distance you can shoot relative to the maps stays the same.

3. To change aircraft turn radii you need to change both the agility radius and the lift quality
-lift quality is an odd term, there is a drag coefficient and a drag quality but for lift only the quality term is available so I think it's not exactly an aerodynamic coefficient in the classical sense (the value is way to high for that anyway). I'm not exactly sure what it's physical meaning is but in general more quality seems to mean more lift.

4. It seems possible to have a munition which does both AP and HE damage. The HE explosion displays and the AP damage is done but I haven't been able to test whether or not HE damage is actually done (in progress).
-Further testing has indicates that adding the HE and area of effect causes the AP damage to occur across the full area of effect (so a large missile like a Kh-29 and AGM-65E will destroy a whole bunch of tanks at once if you turn up the AoE, which may not be what you want
-Possibly a better approach would be to use multiple mounted weapons on the same turret (like tanks use now) but this is not yet possible with the modding tools


5. A bunch of HitRollRule instances are the same for different weapons, you can't yet create new ones so at best you'll have to play with switching to different ones to get the accuracies you want.

6. displayed speeds seem more or less correct compared to the terrain/units.

Questions and areas of interest

Things I am working on learning. If you know anything about these things please let me know

1. Is there a global parameter to change the number of distance units in a game meter (a MetreRTS not a displayed meter aka DistanceFeedbackTactique)
-There does not seem to be and if such a thing existed changing it would almost certainly cause more problems than just altering each weapon's range to what you want.

2. How does one adjust missile guidance logic (beyond just is/isn't F&F)?
-Adjusting the speeds seems relatively easy but can I change maneuverability?
-I'm still somewhat unsure of how to change guidance types
-can I change the rules for a guidance type/create a new type of guidance?

3. Aircraft Physics models
-what do the quality terms do for aircraft
-how does drag work in the game and how does it interact with the set movement speed (ie what happens if thrust and drag balance below the specified maximum movement speed)
-drag coefficient and draq quality seem to do roughly the same thing. Their influence seems minimal unless you set them very high, in which case they will lead to a balance with thrust below the specified cruising speed and eventually stalling and crashing if set high enough
-Generally any information about what the numerous parameters (that are not true aerodynamic/stability coefficients and are not mass, areas or thrust) in each model do physically in the equations of motion
-The aircraft physics models are tricky, it's much easier to get a plane to smash into the ground or wiggle weirdly or fly strange jerky or tilted orbits, than change any single behavior, changing the maneuver radius as I described above is about as much as I can figure out and even that is tough



4. How does radar work?
-how can I attach a radar to a given weapon?
-can radar be attached to multiple weapons?
-how does radar work with vision?

5. There seems to be a limit to how far aircraft will shoot with certain weapons unrelated to their range. Anyone know how to fiddle with that?
-It's not much longer than the current ranges of missile-armed CAS planes.
-Resolved, even though aircraft have no power to see ground units they do still have a visual range for ground units and can't shoot beyond it, change the range in the scanner configuration module (there seems to be no reason not to just set it very high since the plane still won't be able to spot any units)
Last edited by themediocrity on Sat 9 Nov 2013 01:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Mikeboy
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Re: Some questions and some information

Postby Mikeboy » Sat 2 Nov 2013 10:42

themediocrity wrote:4. It seems possible to have a munition which does both AP and HE damage. The HE explosion displays and the AP damage is done but I haven't been able to test whether or not HE damage is actually done (in progress)


From what I've seen doing this will mean you can fire it at armoured targets but not at unarmoured ones. It also gets the HEAT tag.

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Re: Some questions and some information

Postby Guggy » Sun 3 Nov 2013 01:29

Damn fine work so far, themediocrity. Sorry I cant be of more use, but in particular the explanation of how to change displayed range is very useful.

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Re: Some questions and some information

Postby Guggy » Fri 8 Nov 2013 23:08

EDIT: NM Im the worst

stratmania
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Re: Some questions and some information

Postby stratmania » Sun 10 Nov 2013 16:34

Mikeboy wrote:
themediocrity wrote:4. It seems possible to have a munition which does both AP and HE damage. The HE explosion displays and the AP damage is done but I haven't been able to test whether or not HE damage is actually done (in progress)


From what I've seen doing this will mean you can fire it at armoured targets but not at unarmoured ones. It also gets the HEAT tag.

That pretty much explains how SEAD knocked out so many tanks that were adjacent to radar AA...

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Soundwolf776
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Re: Some questions and some information UPDATED

Postby Soundwolf776 » Sun 10 Nov 2013 19:51

-Resolved, even though aircraft have no power to see ground units they do still have a visual range for ground units and can't shoot beyond it, change the range in the scanner configuration module (there seems to be no reason not to just set it very high since the plane still won't be able to spot any units)

Thanks a lot for clarifying it! I was simply out of ideas why increased range on PGMs didn't work.

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Re: Some questions and some information UPDATED

Postby Guggy » Sun 10 Nov 2013 20:56

You guys had any luck with changing helo maneuverability?

I've gotten the Apache to do a turn-around within 3 seconds at full speed, from its 7-8 seconds normal. Turn width was within the helicopter's own width, compared to 3-4 times that in vanilla.

Unrealistic as hell, but sure makes gunships more reactive to commands, which has been their big problem!

Apache can do a 180 in a bit over a second. Looks ridiculous, but meh...

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Soundwolf776
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Re: Some questions and some information UPDATED

Postby Soundwolf776 » Mon 11 Nov 2013 04:22

I've gotten the Apache to do a turn-around within 3 seconds at full speed, from its 7-8 seconds normal. Turn width was within the helicopter's own width, compared to 3-4 times that in vanilla.

What values did you change?

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Re: Some questions and some information UPDATED

Postby Guggy » Mon 11 Nov 2013 07:51

Cyclic Maneuverability, Torque Maneuverability, and for sake of being safe the GFactorLimit.

Its hard to discern what the individual values do, but it seems that Cyclic Maneuverability alone was enough to cause some really fast snap-motions in the nose and tail of the aircraft during halting and advancing.

I'm mostly interested in finding the exact values that would directly affect the heli's ability to rotate in place, and it seems that the Torque and Cyclic Maneuverability values are relative.

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Re: Some questions and some information UPDATED

Postby Gronank » Thu 14 Nov 2013 13:24

Guggy wrote:Cyclic Maneuverability, Torque Maneuverability, and for sake of being safe the GFactorLimit.

I halved the weight and doubled vertical velocity. It worked well enough.
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