Mot Odd Mod Hot Blog, can I has help?

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Mot
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Mot Odd Mod Hot Blog, can I has help?

Postby Mot » Mon 6 Jan 2014 20:04

To the mod pioneers: Thanks.

So I was wondering why my units would all of a sudden go ballistic, it seems that VitesseCombat is the speed at which units can move when they are engaged in combat. So both the MouvementHandler module and this parameter are required to be at the same level if the speed is to be uniform. It was fun to see my BTR40A moving at 500km/h once they shoot at something...

Sucessfully created an Infantry squad with mortars, however I can't change the weapon animation and sound effect to anything other than machienguns, so it looks odd, but works, further testing required I guess.

All attempts at making vehicles transportable were met with either just not working or game crashing. Its not important since I'm working on a ww2 style timeframe mod, but would be fun for modern mods to have helicopter airlifted vehicles.


Tried to create whole new units using existing models, I can't even create new instance for a new unit, same for weapons, am I missing something? Or isn't possible?

So here it goes:

In TAmmunition:
Anyone knows what Puissance does?
Anyone knows what Level does?

Does Mod tools allow to create new weapons?
Does Mod tools allow to create new units out of the existing unit models?
(Assuming yes by what I read, but would appreciate a definitive answer, and maybe a guide ;) )





Does the ROF and/or Size of an infantry unit depend on the amount of soldiers (strength) the infantry has?
After creating the 100 Motostrelkis circles of doom, and face them against jagers and panzergrenadiers with 10 strength squads, I think its safe to conclude that ROF does not scale with unit initial strength/size/amount. The only advantage is indeed the amount of soldiers in the squad which grants more survivability. Still, the following questions are still an incognita:
Does ROF or Size change when an infantry unit takes casualties?
ROF does.
If so, does the ROF apply to all weapons or only the primary weapon?
(Assuming primary weapon only due to parameter in editor)

Questions about AoE:
Is the damage spread equally in the whole AoE area? Or does it fade with distance?
Fades with distance.

After testing with 100 Motostrelki squads, my conclusion is that a good machine can handle up to 4000 soldier models, high machines can probably go much higher since my graphics card is quite outdated GTX460M NVIDIA. However the problem is the flashy circles around the infantry units, when a lot of them are selected at the same time the game pretty much freezes around 1 FPS.
Does anyone know how to remove this? (While keeping the name of the unit white to know which units are selected)
The solution is in TCosmeticHaloDesc, class 205. There's 3 instances for each type of unit, one deals with selection, other with highlighting and other with supply. Changing the ones which property value is haloSelect removes the halo from units selected. I was able to select a hundred units each with 20 soldiers without a high drop in FPS. However the act of selecting means we highlight all of them, therefore it freezes for a second. By removing haloHighlight radius this should be eliminated but I think its important to have units highlighted. This means that we can make battles with thousands of soldiers and not break the game due to CPU, since one can simulate squads with 20 or 30 soldiers each, which is useful for early cold war and ww2 era mods.

When I assign a transport to an Infantry unit, somehow more transports are assigned automatically, for example, I assigned the canadian m35 and automatically the grizzly shows up. The Grizzly isn't even in the TAllUnits list, isn't in the transport list of the Infantry unit, and I can't find anything that connects them in any class. Anyone run into a similar problem? How do I solve this?
By going to the unit that shouldn't be there and removing the UpgradeRequire (497) this problem goes away.

Is it possible to make vehicles able to enter APC's like Infantry?
So far no, game crashes.

Where can I change the increase in armor piercing damage per unit of distance?
Where can I change the increase in accuracy per unit of distance?
(TWargameDistanceMultiplierRollRuleDescriptor looked promising, but after messing with all values and executing a lot of ingame tests I see no changes whatsoever in the game. TGameplayArmeeArmureContainer seems to only have damage values against armor. TFloatArmeeArmureContainer, no clue what it does, it has 10 Map each with 25 Collections, I'm assuming that 25 represents armor levels, 10 I have no clue, will mess with this to see what happens.)
Answer can be found in page 1

The stats of weapons like for example, "PhysicalDamages" refer to each "Tir"? or to each ammo used?
Taking for example a machinegun, 100 ammo per Salve, 10 Tirs per Salve, meaning that each Tir uses 10 ammo, with a PhysicalDamages of 0,5, does this mean that each Tir does 0,5 damage? Or that each Tir does 0,5*10?
After more testing and a table staring contest against my patience, I realized that the reason why some vehicles take HE damage from machineguns is because of the intricate nature of armor mechanics and their 3 hidden values. Therefore due to the very high damage some weapons would due if the PhysicalDamages was in relation to ammo spent in each Tir, the conclusion is that damage is done per Tir. I tried to make a spreadsheet that takes into account how much ammo each weapon uses to calculate damage, it gets really tricky, still I think I will go with this approach to calculate HE damage of small arms in my mod.

Is unit strength a float value? (While playing the game, and in the editor it seems to be an integer)
If unit strength is an integer: Before the last patch, machineguns used to make 0,75 HE damage, does this mean that when a weapon with 0,75 HE hits, it has 75% odds of making 1HE damage?

Is it possible to have decimal armor? And decimal armor piercing?
It looks like it can indeed be a float value, however how the engine interprets and processes this float is an incognita to me, further table staring required.

Is it possible to change damage formulas? For example, removing the HEAT capability of always making 1 damage.
So there's no formula, instead we have a ton of tables and a few variables to define attributes, and this is a much better approach imo, allows for more flexibility, but also requires a lot more work, nothing a new excel document can't help me with.

Armee: This parameter seems to hold the value for armor piercing, for KE guns it seems that the "editor value equals ingame value minus 4". For HEAT weapons it seems that "editor value equals ingame value minus 34". The plot thickens, can someone clarify how Armee works?
After a lot of testing, it seems that AP can never be higher than 30. It seems that when the value is set above 34 it will just cycle again from 1 to 30 so I assume a maximum AP value of 64, which in practice is 30 anyway, this explains why when I tested 84 and 74, the weapon AP ingame was N/A. Values above 34 seem to be used for HEAT weapons and below for KE guns, but it seems that it makes no difference in practice. This is a moderate setback for what I had in mind for my mod, still nothing that can't be worked around. If someone can clarify the mechanics of the Armee parameter, and if someone knows a way to raise this limit, it would be great.

HitRollSizeModifier: is this an accuracy modifier taking into consideration the TARGET size? Or is it a bonus for the accuracy of the unit itself?
Answered: HitRollSizeModifier is in fact the size of the unit. Thank you for clarifying this, my interpretation was completely off.

Infantry units like Legion, considered elite, and therefore given a bonus of 100% to their primary weapon stats, doesn't result from an engine definable bonus, instead this bonus is a simple theoretical standard applied to their weapons accuracy and ROF. The weapon they use (in this case the FAMAS) has the same name as the other Infantry Squads that use them but they are different weapons in the engine.

I read that weapon stats will always be the same no matter which unit uses them, but for example:
The 'M240' machinegun, can be found in both 'US Marines' and 'F151A2 FAV', with different stats. It can also be found on the 'V-150' with a different picture and different stats than the other two.
The 'M68A1' tank gun can be found in both the 'M1 Abrams' and the 'M1IP Abrams', with different stats.
I'm assuming that this are in fact different weapons in the database, just with the same name and/or picture. Is this assumption correct?
Assumption seems to be correct.

Is the maximum armor 23?
If yes, is it possible to mod this limitation and increase the limit?
After trial and error it seems that armor can go to very high levels, tried 60 (ingame 56) and it worked, but according to the table, despite the shown value, the true armor value can never be higher than 20.


Finds:

To change the unit Strength (aka Hitpoints) the parameter you are looking for is 'MaxDamages'. However this value isn't editable on a unit per unit basis, just like armor values. 'MaxDamages' belongs to 'TWargameDamageModuleDescriptor', which can be found in the 'Damages' module, which in turn can be found in any unit. Here is a list of the values 'TWargameDamageModuleDescriptor' can take and the respective 'MaxDamages' associated with it:
16531 - 10 (Vehicles, Tanks, Infantry, Airplanes, Artillery)
16657 - 5 (Vehicles)
16755 - 10 (BMP series, Saracen)
16895 - 2
16917 - 15 (15 men squads)
18652 - 3
18844 - 5
20214 - 100 (FOB?)
20751 - 6
20807 - 8
20817 - 4 (Helicopters)
20847 - 4
20882 - 8
20949 - 6
22464 - 2 (2 men squads)
This information was taken with a quick random search, it seems it makes no difference which descriptor value you use since the 16531 takes any unit with 10 strength, while the 16755 only a few vehicles. Looks like an organization option only.
Another thing to keep in mind is that 'TModuleSelector - Damage' is different for several units, I have absolutely no idea what it changes, but there's a ton of values it can take.
If anyone has more information about this, please share.

TAmmunition aka weapons works in a slightly different way than I expected, but seems simple enough. So far I narrowed down what some of the variables do, some still don't make sense, here is the list of what I know:
Armee - Armor Piercing Power
ProjectileType - So far (made a quick random check):
- 5 - seems to be all F&F AA missiles, SACLOS ATGM, Radar missiles.
- 1 - seems to be artillery
- null - seems to be all KE weapons and automatic grenade launchers.
Puissance - In French it means Power, ingame I have no idea what this does, but its not a constant value, bigger weapons have bigger values.
TempEntreDeuxTirs - Time between Tirs, this is a reload time between magazine reload, so for example a weapon with 30 bullets that fires 3 Tirs, means it fires 10 rounds per Tir, and this parameter defines how long it takes to fire those 10 rounds, basically its a ROF.
PorteeMaximale - Ground Range
AngleDispersion - My guess is that this is the max angle at which the weapon misses, should increase with morale drop, importance is probably to suppression damage, a low angle of dispersion means that the round probably will land close and inflict area supression.
RadiusSplashSupressDamages - My guess, is the radius Supression.
SupressDamages - This is the Supression the weapon causes.
TempsEntreDeuxSalves - This is an odd value, it seems to be Reload Time, but after testing it, it doesn't respond accordingly, will do more tests.
NbrProjectilesSimultanes - After a random check it looks like all units have it at 1, checked twin weapons like the ZSU-57, atgm planes that fire 2 atgms, so no idea what this does, further testing required.
NbTirsParSalves - This defines how many Tirs per Magazine the weapon will do.
AffichageMunitionParSalve - This is how much ammo each Salve, aka Magazine, your weapon has, an m16 will have 30 for example. This number divided per each NbTirsParSalves defines how many rounds the weapon fires per Tir.
HitRollRule - Accuracy, when opening it has 4 values:
- MinimalHitProbability - According to forum sources this is the minimum accuracy your weapon will have no matter how lower the morale is.
- MinimalCritProbability - According to forum sources this is the odds that a round will cause critical modifier like "Optics Malfunction".
- HitProbability - This is the Accuracy.
- HitProbabilityWhileMoving - This is the Stabilizer.
FireTriggeringProbability - This are the odds that firing this weapon will cause a ground fire where it hits.
RadiusSplashPhysicalDamages - This is the Area of Effect (AoE) of the weapon, I have no idea if the HE damage will apply equally over the whole area or if it decreases as the distance from point of impact increases, anyone knows?
PhysicalDamages - HE Power/Damage, for KE weapons is a multiplier for the tabled damage.
PorteeMinimale - Minimum Range against Ground.
DispersionAtMinRange - For artillery type weapons only afaik. Dispersion of shells at minimum range.
DispersionAtMaxRange - Same as above but at maximum range.
NoiseDissimulationMalus - My guess is that this defines how more "visible" the unit gets when firing this weapon, not sure for how long this decreased stealth will remain, my guess is that a global variable defines that.
TempsDeVisee - It seems to be Aiming Time, but will test it to make sure.
SupplyCost - How much supply it takes for each Round? Tir? Salve? Not sure.
SmokeDescriptor - If True it means its a smoke weapon, artillery will have two weapons, one for the normal HE rounds and another for the Smoke rounds.
PorteeMaximaleTBA - Helicopter Range
PorteeMaximaleHA - Airplane Range
PorteeMinimaleTBA - Minimum Range against Helicopter.
PorteeMinimaleHA - Minimum Range against Airplane.


Found out that to add a value to a property which is set to 'null' all I have to do is click in the button that says "Add Property Value".... yeah go figure...
Then I recalled, missile type value of ATGM and AA missiles is the same, 5. So let me try changing ECM of a T-80U to say, -1.0
I made a skirmish game against some american decks and I watched in awe as literally in more than a hundred atgm fired at my tanks only 1 hit!!
There was Hellfires, Tow's, Tow2, Dragons, all with morale Calm, all flying at my tanks and all missed with the exception of 1 Hellfire!
So damn, we can simulate tank countermeasures!
Now assuming that -1.0 is an accuracy modifier applied to the accuracy formula of the missile, no missiles whatsoever should have hit. So I have a few explanations for this:
1. I had 3 tanks very close to each other, could have been a miss that hit another tank by mistake?
2. At the moment the hellfire hit, my tanks were under rocket fire, they had low morale, could morale influence the ECM efficiency?
3. Accuracy of a weapon goes beyond 100%, meaning that despite the odds getting a -100% penalty due to ECM, they can still be a positive value.
4. Dragon is SACLOS(GUID), all TOW variants are SACLOS(GUID), Hellfire is SALH(SA), could this make a difference? (Only 4 Hellfires were fired, further testing required)
Anyway, 1 in more than a hundred atgm's, seems pretty conclusive, HitRollECMModifier does work on ground vehicles against ATGM ammunition.


I tested this only for KE weapons:
- The armor piercing value aka Armee doesn't matter at all, its only a reference to the damage table in TGameplayArmeeArmureContainer the weapon uses, you can make a weapon with 0 AP Power kill a t80u with one shot as long as the damage against 20 armor is set to the appropriate value in the table. AP Power is indeed an integer value.
- As long as values in the Armee TGameplayArmeeArmureContainer are positive (they can go as low as 0,01 never tested below that), the weapon will shoot at the specified armor. This opens the possibility of for example allowing autocannons to fire on armors that they can't kill but can still make criticals.
- HE Power, aka PhysicalDamages when applied to a KE weapon works as a multiplier to the damage specified in TGameplayArmeeArmureContainer. This means that the modder can simulate different damages with the same armor piercing capability, great news in the variety department.

Tested adding the Transportable module for vehicles, vehicles gain automatically the capability to enter transport but the game crashes a second after they appear inside the truck, will mess with values and post results.

The Evacuation Altitude (class 0 instance 1) is the minimum altitude that the plane needs to reach in order to evacuate? What truly defines when he evacuates is the timer associated with each unit, set timer at 300 seconds and mig25 went into space.

An idea for fellow modders who find the rigid damage mechanics unsuitable for their mods, we have the critical effect of adding damage, but if we raise the odds of critical hits, and raise the damage done by that critical effect, it leads into inconsistencies, like, for example, if someone plays with decimal damage for criticals, as I want to with my heavy machineguns and autocannons, then all of a sudden we have them killing tanks like its nothing due to this criticals. My solution so far is to instead of adding damage, remove damage. So instead of having a tank with 15AP doing 1 damage on a tank with 15 armor, I will have it do 10 damage but sometimes the critical effect will reduce that damage and the tank survive. I have yet to test this, not much time this weekend, but thought about it and it looks like a nice solution, let me know if you tried this, Ill post my results once I test this.


Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Mot on Thu 16 Jan 2014 15:35, edited 29 times in total.
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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Soundwolf776
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Re: Questions about modding.

Postby Soundwolf776 » Mon 6 Jan 2014 20:34

HitRollSizeModifier

It's the "Size" rating of the unit. If it's negative, unit will be harder to hit, if it's positive - easier. AFAIK, it's a flat bonus, applied after all the calculations, but I didn't specifically tested it.

There's 3 levels of Infantry training

Nope, there are none. All the regular inf/shock inf/elite inf division is set up solely by the weapon stats. Ak-74 enitity for Motostrelki will just have lower accuracy and less ROF, while Ak-74 of VDV will have better stats.
Notice also that all small arms are actually two weapons. One is used for regular fighting, and one for extremely close one.

I read that weapon stats will always be the same no matter which unit uses them...
I'm assuming that this are in fact different weapons in the database, just with the same name and/or picture. Is this assumption correct?

Yes. Some weapons are shared by units, but not many.

Mot
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Re: Questions about modding.

Postby Mot » Tue 7 Jan 2014 03:01

Started modding today, made a crazy Norov and gave it to the US, 9 cards with 9 each at any veterancy I want, unfortunately it didnt work, tweaked it, didnt work again and again, so I guess that one of the values I altered was just too high, no 60 frontal armor for Norov... the poor thing... :(

Anyway, in fact I couldnt field anything, made a deck and all I got was the initial CV which wasn't even the one I selected to the deck, and 1900 greyed points and no units to field, byproduct of 'nocando' values I guess... :cry:

Hopefully I will be able through trial and error to answer a few of my questions, I will post the results of all my tests, hopefully that will be able to help someone in the future.

Still, please, if you have the time, and know the answer to my questions, feel free to make me avoid painful hours of trial an error testing :)
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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Re: Questions about modding.

Postby Iris » Tue 7 Jan 2014 08:06

You should be able to make a mortar squad; I just made a Tow Team for the US and it works.

Mortars should be no different.

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Randomletters
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Re: Questions about modding.

Postby Randomletters » Wed 8 Jan 2014 01:25

Values above 34 seem to be used for HEAT weapons and below for KE guns, but it seems that it makes no difference in practice. This is a moderate setback for what I had in mind for my mod, still nothing that can't be worked around. If someone can clarify the mechanics of the Armee parameter, and if someone knows a way to raise this limit, it would be great.

Arme 1 appears to be something along the lines of .5 AP. Arme 3 and 4 are HE. 2 is literally nothing, if you set a weapon for 2 Arme it will never fire. 5-34 are KE in that they don't do damage to anything above their AP rating. 35-64 do 1 damage to all armor. What actually determines if a weapon is KE though is the EfficatieSelonPortee setting in TAmmunition, true means KE false means HEAT with the corresponding Armee.
If you want to increase damage look in TGameplayArmeArmureContainer, there is no actual formula for damage it's all contained in those tables.

After trial and error it seems that armor can go to very high levels, tried 60 (ingame 56) and it worked, units couldn't kill each other, the correct value also shows ingame and doesn't stay at 20 like I read somewhere. Will do more tests.

You'd have to make the higher armor value work with the damage tables in TGameplayArmeArmureContainer.

Won't work, afaik the weapon won't fire at armored vehicles if it cant damage them, therefore, solution could be to increase drastically vehicle and tank strenght, increase in the same level the armor piercing of anti-tank weapons and keep the HEAT solution at 1 damage for anti-material rifles. If possible of course...

Sounds perfectly fine to me.

Mot
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Re: Questions about modding.

Postby Mot » Wed 8 Jan 2014 15:24

Thanks for everyone's input, very helpful.

After staring at TGameplayArmeArmureContainer tables for half an hour I can't make much sense out of them... would be asking to much for a quick explanation about how to read them?
Ok after staring at it for 2 more minutes, Im assuming that for each map value corresponds an Armee value, from 0 to 65.
Then I'm assuming that each float in the table is a count up from 0 armor to the maximum armor 24, meaning 20 ingame and the value it takes is the damage the Armee value of the list does.
And if it is indeed like this, I feel really dumb because its quite straightforward and a 10year old child would have figured it out in a minute.
If this is not the case then...

Managed to create a new list with a new map value, however I can't add values to that list, or add and remove from any of the other lists :cry:


On a sidenote, good to know that my glorious Mortar Infantry is a possibility!
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

Mot
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Re: Mot Odd Mod Hot Blog, can I has help?

Postby Mot » Thu 9 Jan 2014 20:37

Bump!

Can someone tell me where I set the game distance scale?
And where can I define how AP and accuracy increases/decreases with distance?

I checked literally everywhere and not only in the everything.ndif, just can't find it...
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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Re: Mot Odd Mod Hot Blog, can I has help?

Postby Soundwolf776 » Fri 10 Jan 2014 00:16

gdconstanteoriginal.ndfbin you should use, young padawan. ;)

TTunableConstante, parameter id 105 for "fake scale".
TWargameTunableConstante, parameters id 133 and 134 for AP scaling.

for accuracy, you actuualy need to take a look in the everything.ndfbin, TWargameDistanceMultiplierRollRuleDescriptor.

Mot
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Re: Mot Odd Mod Hot Blog, can I has help?

Postby Mot » Fri 10 Jan 2014 02:21

Ah that explains why I couldn't find it, I took a look at the other ndfbins but maybe I missed that one, that's what happens when you try to mod games until 5am I guess

I messed a lot with TWargameDistanceMultiplierRollRuleDescriptor values, but after many tests it yeld no visible results, will mess with it again!

Thanks!
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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Re: Mot Odd Mod Hot Blog, can I has help?

Postby Mot » Mon 13 Jan 2014 23:37

Bump for more questions


When I assign a transport to an Infantry unit, somehow more transports are assigned automatically, for example, I assigned the canadian m35 and automatically the grizzly shows up. The Grizzly isn't even in the TAllUnits list, isn't in the transport list of the Infantry unit, and I can't find anything that connects them in any class. Anyone run into a similar problem? How do I solve this?
Does ROF or Size change when an infantry unit takes casualties?

Is the damage spread equally in the whole AoE area? Or does it fade with distance?

In TAmmunition:
Anyone knows what Puissance does?
Anyone knows what Level does?

Does anyone know how to remove the white circles that show up when units are selected? (While keeping the name of the unit white to know which units are selected)

Help pretty please!
Thanks in advance
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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