BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Type-13B-

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BTR
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BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Type-13B-

Postby BTR » Thu 3 Apr 2014 21:43

Hi, well, you know how this goes. I didn't feel this was too relevant to "balance suggestions", so I'll leave this here for people's references.

I have completed my migration to Google docs. So, ~18K words and ~100 pages later I present to you:

BTR visits tanks and AT v.13.2

It is still work in progress, but this is nearing its completion. Slowly.
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby Guggy » Fri 4 Apr 2014 00:25

Hands down, the best resource/point-of-reference for handling tank stats so far :) May not be good for gameplay in a vacuum, but its fantastic to see just how capable today's modern fighting machines are. 90% hit rate isnt an exaggeration!

If you're one of those guys who prefers their realism mods to have a stat-centric backbone, then this is a fantastic source.
Last edited by BTR on Mon 2 Jun 2014 13:31, edited 14 times in total.

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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby The W:AB Noob » Fri 4 Apr 2014 06:17

I can't really tell what this is, but it looks very impressive, so good job.
EDIT: Why do I feel like this post will get hijacked?
Last edited by BTR on Fri 6 Jun 2014 08:16, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby another505 » Fri 4 Apr 2014 06:32

It will be nice for ussr tanks to get realistic tgm power so it will be less supply cost and their guns can be buffed

TGM will be still useful in fighting against tow trucks lol

btw, any accuracy stats for their tgm?
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby wargamer1985 » Fri 4 Apr 2014 06:39

Great job BTR, BTW any chance we could apply the same to APCs?
Oh and one thing, from my sources it indicates that the AT-4 Has about 50mm more penetration then the Carl Gustav (90 round to 90 round) can you provide your source saying other wise?
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby BTR » Fri 4 Apr 2014 09:01

another505 wrote:btw, any accuracy stats for their tgm?


Its a little more subjective that the already semi-subjective FCS stats. "By the book stats" are something like 0.9 hit probability for 9M119M fired from a 9K119M system at 5000m. Not really an easy thing to integrate into the wargame system. Also, for instance, soviet ATGM systems were not accepted into service if they could not deliver 0.8 hit probability at their maximum range, so again, a little too theoretical. No cables getting stuck in bushes, no atmo heat to distort out laser guidance, just table flat planes with 7km LoS and near-perfect hit chance. Something to look at in any case.

wargamer1985 wrote:Great job BTR, BTW any chance we could apply the same to APCs?
Oh and one thing, from my sources it indicates that the AT-4 Has about 50mm more penetration then the Carl Gustav (90 round to 90 round) can you provide your source saying other wise?
Thanks!


Yeah, APC's are doable, but there are plenty of tanks to go about still. As for AT-4/CG, FAS reports AT-4 to have 400mm, Russian sources state 400-420. As for the CG's HEAT FFV 551 its circa 350-400 again from obscure internet places like: http://www.eme421.com/84mm.html (I am personally in love with hip sites like that), both Russian and Western. In the end, my averages came to be 420mm for AT-4 and 380mm for FFV 551 which is 40mm difference between the two. I suppose I could squeeze extra 10mm difference, but I don't think this is that much of an exact science to be worth it, especially with CE weapons that have a certain range of values they could "burn" through.
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby RaduM » Fri 4 Apr 2014 09:15

BTR wrote:
Its a little more subjective that the already semi-subjective FCS stats. "By the book stats" are something like 0.9 hit probability for 9M119M fired from a 9K119M system at 5000m. Not really an easy thing to integrate into the wargame system. Also, for instance, soviet ATGM systems were not accepted into service if they could not deliver 0.8 hit probability at their maximum range, so again, a little too theoretical. No cables getting stuck in bushes, no atmo heat to distort out laser guidance, just table flat planes with 7km LoS and near-perfect hit chance. Something to look at in any case.



Indeed! This is something that I have wrestled with myself as well. In general, in ideal conditions, even older guided missiles, be they anti-tank or anti-air, perform really well, but then again actual combat is really chaotic.

My idea revolves around a pair of values in the Experience section. It seems that a unit can have an extra chance of avoiding fire, like an "Experience ECM modifier". If I understood the values correctly.

I could use that. The main reason missiles might miss in actual combat is because of the various evasive maneuvers both planes and ground vehicles can take to shake a missile off them, plus countermeasures like popping smoke or chaff/flare. The measures that I mentioned are not a sure-fire thing so obviously a more experienced crew can capitalize on them more.

Anyway, that's my take on this particular issue.
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby BTR » Fri 4 Apr 2014 09:36

I don't particularly like fixing what isn't too broken, and I don't think the current system is too broken. In the end each system might have to examined just like tank FCS is, and I was planning to set a distance ceiling of some 2900m for ATGM's to then examine their functioning up until that distance. All theory-crafting for now.
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Phase one-

Postby Crotou » Fri 4 Apr 2014 10:31

Great job. That's very interesting for non-specialist people like me. ;)
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Re: BTR Visits tanks, and AT -Block II-

Postby BTR » Fri 4 Apr 2014 17:19

Brits are in the building.
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