Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

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kvnrthr
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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby kvnrthr » Sat 5 Apr 2014 14:41

I don't see these changes making it into the base game, but for a mod why not try it out?

Of course, radar might be too long range, considering the small size of the maps. 30 km is a bit too much (if i'm not mistaken that covers the length of most maps).

Also, with your buffs to IR AA won't helicopters be a bit too vulnerable? How much do you plan to increase IR anti heli range on planes?

Anyway we can't say for sure until we can try out the mod.
Hoping for a better next-gen Wargame and new engine in a few years...
One can dream ;_;

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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby Panzeh » Sat 5 Apr 2014 15:28

Soundwolf776 wrote:30km anti-plane range is bull, of course, but 7-9km is perfectly fine - see Hobmod - and actually much more in a Eugen's own scale of ranges.
4,2km as max anti-plane range makes absolutely no sense as even light 81mm mortars become a viable SEAD weapon.


It is kinda funny picturing fighter pilots calling in accurate artillery fire on SAMs shooting at them, but that's just one of the hilarious points of unreality with this game's air design.

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DoktorvonWer
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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby DoktorvonWer » Sat 5 Apr 2014 15:30

If radar missiles were going to be extended to huge ranges, they should have their accuracy the same, or dropped. If you want to cover huge ranges, you don't get to do so very effectively, otherwise the game will just be stupid.

By the way, any change in radar scale means a change in SEAD scale too.
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ledarsi
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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby ledarsi » Sun 6 Apr 2014 02:44

kvnrthr wrote:Also, with your buffs to IR AA won't helicopters be a bit too vulnerable? How much do you plan to increase IR anti heli range on planes?

Actually, not really. Currently you can get a radar SAM with 3-4 km range against helicopters for about 80 points. Just make those 3-4 km SAM's high-end infrared units and cost 80 points.

If anything, this will make helicopters more useful. Expensive radar SAM's effective against aircraft would be relatively ineffective against helicopters. Helicopters and planes put different stresses on the enemy's air defense grid, making it difficult to balance both. Either by tweaking helicopter ATGM's and radar SAM ranges against helicopters, or by having more helicopters with anti-radar missiles.

Increasing SEAD range massively would also make sense. I also think that if ECM did not work on gun weapons, such as nose-mounted plane cannons, then the ECM values on high-end SEAD planes might even be increased. High ECM planes could operate with a relatively high degree of safety in light radar AA environments. And if the enemy has spent a large amount of points on radar anti-air, using artillery, helicopters, or even ground units to destroy the SAM's becomes easier.

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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby Mot » Mon 7 Apr 2014 20:07

ledarsi wrote:Radar Missiles

I like this, I'm working on a mod and this is more or less how I want my AA to work, plus Im going to make this heavy missiles kill with 1 hit 50% of the time (done by messing around with critical damage increases/decreases). However I don't think you should increase this radar weapon systems range by more than 15-20km. 30km will cover completely most maps and this will be heavily exploitable, specially in conjunction with the very quick evac time, which should be increased drastically.

Availability of this weapon systems would have to go down to a max of 1-2 per card and max 1 card.
ledarsi wrote:Infrared Missiles

If you increase IR missiles range helicopters will become completely useless, unless they get an increase in their weapons range as well.
ledarsi wrote:Guns

As far as I know ECM works for all weapons, radar, IR, and regular. Is this modifiable?
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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KattiValk
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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby KattiValk » Mon 7 Apr 2014 23:18

Mot wrote:As far as I know ECM works for all weapons, radar, IR, and regular. Is this modifiable?
No, ECM is a flat hit chance reduction.

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robby71
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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby robby71 » Mon 7 Apr 2014 23:52

This game breaks realism literally into pieces...making it fun only for coalition tech-decks and PACT Spammers...

It would be nice to have a game that keeps it real for once...and makes it harder for the kids to play...so they are at least challenged.

again, I say MOD!

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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby KattiValk » Mon 7 Apr 2014 23:54

robby71 wrote:This game breaks realism literally into pieces...making it fun only for coalition tech-decks and PACT Spammers...

It would be nice to have a game that keeps it real for once...and makes it harder for the kids to play...so they are at least challenged.

again, I say MOD!
Except we can't make this thing truly realistic unless the devs are a bit more forthcoming with some proper dev tools.

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The W:AB Noob
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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby The W:AB Noob » Tue 8 Apr 2014 05:04

If we had mod tools...
We could make the Puma APC, the M4 for US infantry, F-35's, the K2 tank, the Nimitz-class supercarriers, towed equipment, and Santa Claus.
We could set it in the future and make spaceships, or we could send it back to the First World War.
We could make it paintball themed, or dinosaur themed, or My Little Pony themed for heck's sake.
We could finally make T-72's fly, or put in total realism effects like communication errors and model real national doctrines.
We could set the battlefields in the Middle East, South America, back to Europe (as some are requesting), Russia in winter, in outer space or under the sea.
We could finally make maps that allow enough room to flank, or support modes like island assault and insurgency.
We could set the stage as Wargame to be a multi-million dollar franchise, or make it a joke.

I wish that after W:RD's DLC, Eugen stops development of Act of Aggression, makes fully-supported mod tools for Red Dragon, and does nothing for ten years just letting the money flow in. Those will probably be the most epic modding time of my life.

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W:RD Sandbox Mod 5.4.2, the Final and Ultimate Patch Click -> Image

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Re: Design Concept: Anti-Air Redesign

Postby Mot » Tue 8 Apr 2014 23:12

The W:AB Noob wrote:If we had mod tools...
We could make ... Santa Claus.


SOLD!
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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