Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

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The W:AB Noob
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby The W:AB Noob » Sun 3 Apr 2016 19:29

PerkingKimchiman wrote:I've gone through some skirmishes recently, and found out that ROK severely lacks in REC tab.
It has good recon infantry, but no EXCEPTIONAL sight unit.
Moreover, its only recon shopper is OH-6 with GOOD sight and no armnament.

IIRC, all of the "very good" chopper recon have been nerved to good. So there are a ton of unarmed choppers with good optics. Also, what would the Bo 105 add? Did it have additional observation or thermal equipment?
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby PerkingKimchiman » Mon 4 Apr 2016 05:38

The W:AB Noob wrote:IIRC, all of the "very good" chopper recon have been nerved to good. So there are a ton of unarmed choppers with good optics. Also, what would the Bo 105 add? Did it have additional observation or thermal equipment?


Image
Image

Above is Night Hawk Sighting System by DRS sensors & targeting systems installed in ROK's BO105 CBS-5.
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby Solbok » Mon 4 Apr 2016 06:27

That KSAM image was quite too much impressive. :o :o
I mean, I was at school when I opened the page :?
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby X42-C1 » Wed 6 Apr 2016 22:10

The Mirage IIIC needs a buff, it has a decent bomb load, but zero ECM and the lowest avalbity of any napalm bomber. 2 crappy IR missiles and a cannon do not somehow make it a viable choice. Compare it with the F-111C, J-10A, F-4S and Mirage 5SDE. What it really needs is a buff to avalbity, eather a large one, or a more modest one with an improvement to its ECM.

On the subject of poorly balanced planes, the Canadian Gripen NG is complete garbage. It Its missiles are nothing special, except for having a very large number of Skyflashes. Unfortunate, there it absolutely no way to use all of these skyflashes, since they are Semi Active and extreamly short ranged for anti plane missiles. It also has problems with having only 2 IR missiles, and with having a higher turn radius than the Swedish Gripens (this problem also effects the Canadian SEAD Gripen). None of this would necessarily be a problem, except that the plane costs 190pt and has only 1 card of 2. Basically it costs as many points and as much deck space as a Eurofighter, but it preforms like a Su-27SK.

On a completely unrelated note, the Su-25T could use its rear armor increased to 2, since the rear seat has been removed as part of the upgrade package.

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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby The W:AB Noob » Wed 6 Apr 2016 23:53

X42-C1 wrote:On a completely unrelated note, the Su-25T could use its rear armor increased to 2, since the rear seat has been removed as part of the upgrade package.

IIRC, the original Su-25 did not have rear seats either. Only trainer versions.
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby X42-C1 » Thu 7 Apr 2016 04:09

The W:AB Noob wrote:IIRC, the original Su-25 did not have rear seats either. Only trainer versions.


You are correct, the Su-25 is a single seat aircraft. However, the Su-25T is a modification of the Su-25UB Trainer variant, which has 2 seats. In the conversion form UB to T, the rear seat is removed, and the space is used for additional avionics, to improved night and all weather performance, as well as to allow for the use of laser guided weapons like the Vikhr missile and KAB series of guided bombs.

Apparently Eugen though to give the T extra armor based on the seat removal, as anyone can plainly see in the base game's armory. In A&S the Su-25 has become the Su-25T and the Su-25T has become the Su-25TM, but the legacy rear armor values are still around. Given the name changes, it seems to me the rear armor should be standardized between the 2 planes, and since the Su-25 series are hardly unstoppable terrors in the face of stuff like the MiG-23AB, MiG-37 and Harrier GR.9, I Iwould prefer to see a buff rather than a nerf.

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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby PerkingKimchiman » Fri 8 Apr 2016 11:46

http://i.imgur.com/ukcPTUm.jpg
USSR Tunguska lineup needs some fix

About SK recon chopper - Can it be just Bo105 CBS-5 with OH-58D Kiowa model/loadout?
Its model might be disturbing, but it is more accurate.
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby PerkingKimchiman » Sat 9 Apr 2016 05:29

Most ROK infantry in Motorized deck depends on 3 cards of KW1 and some choppers.
ROK Motor deck needs cheaper and numerous transport vehicle.
My suggestion is KIA LTV.

If you ran out of unit to convert, use ROK M113 CV or JPN Mitsubishi CV.
Both have conflicting roles, and M113 CV isn't even historically correct.
Also, Baekho's 0/0/0/8/6 availability decreases to 0/0/0/6/4 when selected with KW1.

http://i.imgur.com/tnML1TV.jpg
LMAT is underpriced, and Hyungoong needs some buff, too.
Also, both of unit type card are unchanged.

http://i.imgur.com/lA2Najq.jpg
Chu-MAT might need some price nerf, too.

http://i.imgur.com/kg4tE91g.jpg
You can grab up to 4 F3s in BD deck, and that number jumps to 6 in Japan only deck.
Also, F3 still needs some price nerf.

http://i.imgur.com/geAxHm1.jpg
ROK Habyungs, both heavy and vanilla needs some cheaper transport.
K200 or LTV might work.

http://i.imgur.com/4G4t93U.jpg
F111C is underpriced, and JPN F86 is overpriced, too.
Moreover, above picture also shows 65p Aussie F35.

http://i.imgur.com/2OEti9N.jpg
A4K Kahu is overpriced.

Most SRBMs are underpriced(75~85p).
They can deliver HE 18~30 barrage to anywhere on map and are much likely to survive than bombers are.

http://i.imgur.com/Fue3kYx.jpg
DPRK Tokchon 122/130 is overpriced.
So is M1992 SPAAG.

http://i.imgur.com/AieIkiO.jpg
Motostrelki is underpriced.
It can easily suppress 10~15p blufor counterparts with its seriously op 6PSD MG.
Please note that Motostrelki+GAZ33097 sombi comes in 11p and 0/24/16/18/0 availability.
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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby X42-C1 » Sun 10 Apr 2016 03:45

The UK's Green Jacket Javelin Team is listed as shock infantry, has shock infantry pricing and shock infantry weapons, but have not gotten their +5kph for being shock trained. They have a very low availability, and improving their speed would not make them too strong.

The Danish Patruljekompgniet are listed as shock as well, but are priced as regulars, go regular speed and have regular battlerifles and a STAT LMG. They should have their training relisted as regular with no stat changes.

The SH-60B Sea Hawk is inferior to the Lynx 3 in every way, it is the same price, has half the ATGM load, half the availability per card, lower ECM, no air to air missiles and its slower. It needs a serious buff or a reroll.

The Tigre HAP is currently overpriced, Soviet (and American) helicopter AA missiles have increase in range dramatically, but the Mistral has not changed at all. Although the HAP has gotten other improvements, mostly aimed at survivabitly, the painfully short range of the Mistral still leaves it too expensive for what it can do.

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Re: Ash & Shadows mod Balance discussion Thread

Postby Spectre_nz » Sun 10 Apr 2016 22:32

Apparently Eugen though to give the T extra armor based on the seat removal, as anyone can plainly see in the base game's armory. In A&S the Su-25 has become the Su-25T and the Su-25T has become the Su-25TM, but the legacy rear armor values are still around. Given the name changes, it seems to me the rear armor should be standardized between the 2 planes, and since the Su-25 series are hardly unstoppable terrors in the face of stuff like the MiG-23AB, MiG-37 and Harrier GR.9, I Iwould prefer to see a buff rather than a nerf.


I'd prefer to just keep the stats the way they are and change the name. Perhaps a 5pt price drop, but not much else.

The SH-60B Sea Hawk is inferior to the Lynx 3 in every way, it is the same price, has half the ATGM load, half the availability per card, lower ECM, no air to air missiles and its slower. It needs a serious buff or a reroll.


Yeah, I agree. Sea-hawk is one of those units that hasn't had a lot of attention in A&S.

he UK's Green Jacket Javelin Team is listed as shock infantry, has shock infantry pricing and shock infantry weapons, but have not gotten their +5kph for being shock trained. They have a very low availability, and improving their speed would not make them too strong.

Odd. I'm pretty sure I intended them to have 25kph speed from the outset. I'll fix that.

The Danish Patruljekompgniet are listed as shock as well, but are priced as regulars, go regular speed and have regular battlerifles and a STAT LMG. They should have their training relisted as regular with no stat changes.


Yep.

The Tigre HAP is currently overpriced, Soviet (and American) helicopter AA missiles have increase in range dramatically, but the Mistral has not changed at all. Although the HAP has gotten other improvements, mostly aimed at survivabitly, the painfully short range of the Mistral still leaves it too expensive for what it can do.


Also a unit that hasn't gotten much attention. The mistrals need to be bumped up to 2800m anyway. Could still do with a bit of a price reduction, even after that.

Most ROK infantry in Motorized deck depends on 3 cards of KW1 and some choppers.
ROK Motor deck needs cheaper and numerous transport vehicle.
My suggestion is KIA LTV.


Or I can jut add the K-511 to a couple more units.

Also, Baekho's 0/0/0/8/6 availability decreases to 0/0/0/6/4 when selected with KW1.

Yep. Because most high end transports have more limited availability than other options.

LMAT is underpriced, and Hyungoong needs some buff, too.

LMAT would probably be better off at 25pts but I don't see any reason to change the cost on the Hyungoong's.

Chu-MAT might need some price nerf, too.

Its a 21AP range 2450 missile. Don't kick a missile while its down. It doesn't need price nerfs.

You can grab up to 4 F3s in BD deck, and that number jumps to 6 in Japan only deck.

So? You have to give over two slots to do this. For a fighter with only 2 radar-AAMs with mediocre range.
And then what? Blue-drag only has one ATGM carrier, and its not great. Pure Japan has none. While it can provide HE support, the Japanese air is more about locking other players out of using the air-space than it is being able to win a battle with air power.

Also, F3 still needs some price nerf.

Wat? God no.
Its priced comparably to the Su-27Pu and trades a considerably smaller missile payload for good stealth.

ROK Habyungs, both heavy and vanilla needs some cheaper transport.
K200 or LTV might work.

This isn't a balance issue, this is a 'I want better stuff for my favorite nation' issue.

F111C is underpriced, and JPN F86 is overpriced, too.
Moreover, above picture also shows 65p Aussie F35.


F-86 could do with a price reduction.
65pts for a very niche fighter-bomber (mostly used for suiciding into redfor SAMs). Its more or less a Jaguar Gr.1 with Stealth, better survivability and some missiles for self defense.
They're both cheap because players hardly ever take cluster bombers. 65pts is how far I feel I have to reduce the price so players actually feel like its worth taking a plane that carries two cluster bombs and not much else.

A4K Kahu is overpriced.

No. Its a neat little ATGM carrier that fires its whole payload in one pass then evacs. And AP 30 damage has been scaled up in A&S, so its quite a lot better than AP28.

Most SRBMs are underpriced(75~85p).
They can deliver HE 18~30 barrage to anywhere on map and are much likely to survive than bombers are.

But they drain ammunition and a vulnerable to counter-battery fire from an attentive player.

DPRK Tokchon 122/130 is overpriced.
So is M1992 SPAAG.

Ok, this one I agree with.

Motostrelki is underpriced.
It can easily suppress 10~15p blufor counterparts with its seriously op 6PSD MG.

Then don't expect to walk blufor infantry towards dug in motostrelki and get away with it.
They're points efficient but situation infantry. Redfor is allowed to have fun toys to play with too. They're good as static defense in towns or forest edges against approaching infantry, but not a whole lot else.

If anything, they need a little work so they're not leagues ahead of the other 8pt redfor infantry out there, but they're staying at 8pts.

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