Faustmann Balance Mod Release V1.06

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Daveallen10 » Wed 1 Feb 2017 04:51

Are you trying to make my hipster playstyle as China unspec no longer unviable? I see what you're doing here...

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Mike
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Mike » Wed 1 Feb 2017 06:27

another505 wrote:About Son' gun tank being 2009,
since most nations like redfor ones died but got proto and what if units, NK never really got them ingame except exports. The idea is that the post CW economy damaged NK industry a lot since all its main trading allies are suddenly gone. If the timeline continued with USSR Gorby saving the day and yeltsin fucked off, the industry of NK "what if" survived. Besides, the technology level of Song gun like is still within 90s.
Frosty mentioned this idea first and i support it a lot


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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Fade2Gray » Wed 1 Feb 2017 06:54

Well, after skimming through this thread...

good luck to the team on it. I'm intrigued, and hope to see this progress.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby chykka » Wed 1 Feb 2017 08:14

Akkku wrote:
XanderTuron wrote:
Akkku wrote:That's true, but T-90S has already been established in wargame, where it's simply a T-72BU with a worse FCS.

Actually, it's a BU without Svir

Spoiler : :
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I'm pretty sure the T-90S used to have a worse stab than the T-72BU.


Any excuse to o drop the price of the t90 or make it faster for reduced wieght take out some rounds maybe. They should be pretty much the same tank, The T90s isn't laking the ability too guide Atgm is it?

Cool, a total mod for unit revamping must be fun tweaking values to ridiculous proportions than dialing it back to find the right balance.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby FoxZz » Wed 1 Feb 2017 08:34

While I like the idea of balance mod by the community, I'd still like to keep changes reasonable and realistic. Some units can be overbuffed if it makes sense in the abstracted world of Wargame, but it should remain within the real life units hierarchy, otherwise it breaks the authentic feeling of WG. I'd also avoid too much rerolling.

Some coments on the change list :

Razzmann wrote:
Type 81:
  • Burst Length increased to 10

Zhanshi:
  • Given stabilizers for MG

Zhanshi '85:
  • Mg changed to Type 81


I'm not much of a fan of anything that blurs the line between units categories. I don't think line infantry should get stablised or cqc mgs. Why not instead give to the Type-69-I 50%-55% accuracy, that would turn the Zhanzi in an average good infantry. Than, make bchongsu 15 man for the same 10 point price. Imho, this would fit better into the human wave vibe of the NK army supported by better trained but still conscripts chinese troops.

Razzmann wrote:Lu Zhandui ('90):
  • Renamed to Shénjiàn
  • PF-89 range reduced to 525m
  • Given access to all Chinese transports
  • Given access to Armor/Mech/Moto/Airborne spec


Why not, but why nerf the PF-89 range, it's a very nice modern rpg, I think it should stay the way it is. But I would reduce a bit the specialisation avail.

Razzmann wrote:Tanke Shashou:
  • Renamed to Tanke Shashou ‘85
  • Type 78 RR replaced with PW-80

Tanke Shashou ‘85:
  • Renamed to Tanke Shashou ‘95
  • PW-80 replaced with PF-98 (70% Acc / 1225M / 25AP / 2 HE / 7RPM / 8 Rockets)
  • Price increased to 25
  • Introduction date changed to 1997


First I think a version of CAT C Tanke Shashou should remain, so you could actually bend the rules here and give PW80 an earlier entrance date, or give Type 78RR PW80 stats.
Concerning the Tanke Sahshou 95, I think this is an example of not respecting the units hierarchy. It has IRL 800mm pen while Eryx has 900mm pen, so I think it should be at 24 AP and it would still be fine. Furthermore, 70% acc for a 1225m rocket is too much, it means insane accuracy at closer range while not suffreing from multiple GUID rerolls, and shorter aim time. I think it could sit at 55%-65% 24 AP and still be a very good system. No need to overbuff it here.

Razzmann wrote:Yuckjeondae ('90):
  • Reroled into Light Shock infantry
  • Price reduced by 5pts
  • RPG-7 replaced with RPG-7V (base)
  • Type-69-III replaced with Metys ('90)

Jeogockdae ('90):
  • Reroled into Elite Marines
  • Given access to Marines/Mech/Moto/Airborne spec
  • Price increased by 5pts
  • RPG-7 replaced with RPG-7V

Bibanchungpo:
  • Type 56 RR replaced with RPG-7V FIST


I like this a lot.




Razzmann wrote:ZTZ-85-II:
  • Renamed to ZTZ-98
  • FAV increased to 21
  • SAV increased to 9
  • RAV increased to 3
  • TAV increased to 4
  • Speed increased to 70km/h
  • Autonomy decreased to 620km
  • AP increased to 24
  • Given Refleks ATGM
  • Price increased to 170pts
  • Accuracy increased to 65%
  • Stabilizer increasd to 60%
  • Introduction date changed to 1994
  • Availability changed to (0/2/0/1/0)

ZTZ-85-III:
  • AP increased to 23
  • FAV increased to 20
  • RPM increased to 8
  • Price increased to 155
  • Availability changed to (0/3/2/0/0)

T-90S:
  • Renamed to Song’gun
  • FAV dereased to 17
  • SAV decreased to 9
  • RAV decreased to 4
  • Speed increased to 70km/h
  • RPM reduced to 8
  • Price reduced to 135pts
  • Accuracy reduced to 60%
  • Stabilizer reduced to 50%
  • Availability changed to (0/4/3/0/0)


Here again, try to respect the hierarchy, your AP values are overrated. I'd only give the ZTZ-85-III 8rpm, price would stay the same the ZTZ-85 at 23 AP, 3/2 avail, 165pts. T90 would stay as it is. The tank would be well spread accross the price board : 170, 165, 140, 115, 90. I'd also give Iglas to an additional NK tank, like the T72M.

Razzmann wrote:Li Jian:
  • Renamed to Kongjiangbing
  • Given access to ZSD63A / ZSD63C
  • Given access to Mi-8

Li Jian '90:
  • Renamed to Li Jian
  • Moved into recon tab
  • FHJ-84 replaced with Type-69-III
  • Given access to SX250

Gongbobyong:
  • Moved into Recon tab
  • Given access to the BTR-80A
  • Type 56 RR replaced with with SPG-9D
  • Given access to ZIL-157


I don't like that, I think Li Jian and Li Jian 90 shoudl remain as they are currently, eventually with a better RPG for base Li Jian. But the thermobaric launcher is a nice stuff, even if it's situationnal and not as powerfull as before, it remains a good units when used right. Furthermore, not everything is 1v1 and such units find succes in other game modes. Why not getting rid of a unit that brings diveristy over the regular SF.
I don't think it's necessary for RD to have an elite combat conisdering Lie ren are already a good combat recon, especially if you buff the Type 69-I to 55% acc, I'd rather give them a 5 man militia scout, like the BGS, and would fit into the theme of people's army. So I'd reroll the Gongbobyong into a 5 man militia recon squad at 5 points (human wave theme), which would give NK something else than a 2 man sniper team for recon infantry.
If you absolutely want a elite combat recon, than re roll Gongbyong into an elite recon team with the equipment you wish and downgrade the Jeongchaldae into a shock team. This would actually be the easiest path.


Planes wrote:
JH-7:
  • Renamed to JH-7 Feibao
  • YJ-7 replaced with one Yingji-91 each
  • ECM increasd to 40%
  • Stealth increased to medium
  • Price increased to 125pts
  • Fuel increased to 5500L
  • T.o.T. increased to 165s
  • Air Detection increased to Exceptional
  • Availability changed to (2/0/0/0/1)

JH-7 Feibao:
  • Renamed to JH-7
  • Yingji-91 replaced with 24x cluster bombs
  • Amount of PL-8s reduced to 2
  • Stealth reduced to Poor
  • Fuel reduced to 2500L
  • T.o.T. reduced to 75s
  • Price increased to 160pts
  • Air detection reduced to Very Good
  • Availability changed to (2/0/0/0/1)



Here why not just reducing Vanilla Feibo missiles to 2 and reducing its price and hcanging the Vanilla JH-7 loadout rather than doing this overcomplicated reroll ?
And Why not giving the JH-7 2 additional YJ-7 missiles, buff those to 55% acc and turn it into a good AT plane rather than giving it this weird cluster load.

Also you should consider making the NK Mig 29 a similar fighter than the Polish Mig-29. The R-27T is basically a R27R with IR guidance istead of semi-active radar guidance and not data link. As such, its range is shorter than the R27R, but remains a BVR missile. So the R-27T could be given 60% acc and 7700m range. The loadout would be 4 R-73A and 2 R-27T. Furthermore the NK Mig29 could be given Medium stealth to represent its stealth attack capability by using only it's IRST and passive IR missiles. However, it's air detection should be reducced to very good.
On the other hand, the Chinese SU-27 would be the BVR long range fighter and turn into a clone of the SU-27S, but with 2 additional BVR missile. Even though it carries export variants of the R-73 and the R-27, I would still buff the accuracy of the missiles to 55% each, to show the fact that it is exported but without such a huge capability differance. Price would be 155pts at 2 hardened.

This should allow RD to have good ASF.

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby codextero » Wed 1 Feb 2017 08:44

FoxZz wrote:Why not, but why nerf the PF-89 range, it's a very nice modern rpg, I think it should stay the way it is. But I would reduce a bit the specialisation avail.


PF-89 has pretty low muzzle velocity.

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Coal143 » Wed 1 Feb 2017 08:46

zeeyoo wrote:
This is the fastest article about Sŏn'gun. according to this one, almost 900 Sŏn'gun introduced 2005 to 2012. 2005 or 2009, which side of date is kept in OOTF. in RD's timeframe, Sŏn'gun can only stay in fantasy.


As previously mentioned, extending the timeline is not a huge deal to get in a few units that would help coalitions out. In a WW3 scenario in which the USSR doesn't collapse, It doesn't seem too far fetched that the Sŏn'gun would be available sooner. Let me remind you that we are playing a game in which the cold war goes hot, the entire game is fantastical.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Bougnas » Wed 1 Feb 2017 09:29

One change that you should really consider is to change the NK Mig 29 to have 20% or 30% ECM, 4 R60M and 2 R-27R (basically a L-18 clone IIRC). This would be a more realistic and useful loadout. (Look at the Xeno thread)
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Oktoberfest » Wed 1 Feb 2017 09:57

Akkku wrote:
Mike wrote:I think giving China the T-90S is even worse realism wise. At least they have their own tank, the T-90S is actually an export T-90A iirc.

How is it less realism? China was USSR's closest friend. They could have gotten those tanks, if they really wanted(Unlike NK btw!). And if the main premise of this game was true(conflict, not just cold war), then surely China would not simply have waited a decade until their domestic design was combat ready. They would have wanted the best tank they could get: T90.


I am sorry but China and USSR hated themselves ! Never heard of the border wars? Or the proxi-war between the two during the Cambodia-Vietnam war? And thousands of other instances where the two countries nearly went full scale war on each other ?

And that they somehow get tech not only on par but even superior to what the USSR or NATO can field in an uchrony where the USSR still stands and China would in no case be used to ship the jobs overseas (because of a totally different geopolitical aspect) means that they would even get less acess to western technology to copy.

Remember Tian an Men ? That's why western don't sell military grade tech to the chinese anymore. That and the fact that we've learned that "we buy 200 of that" actually means "let us reverse engineer the 10 units you delivered and cancel the rest of the order"....

So, let's try to be realistic. You give them a rocket that fires nearly at the range of an autocannon and with PERFECT ACCURACY ! Then just give every other nations 70% on all their weapon systems, because chinese technology for 1997 uchrony of Wargame would be shit.

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby ToTheMetal » Wed 1 Feb 2017 10:10

So the Vampire apparently wasn't broken enough as is, hence we need to give it 1225 range. Good job.
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