Faustmann Balance Mod Release V1.06

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HrcAk47
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 3 Feb 2017 11:50

Nequit wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:- 10000 m range laser rangefinder (This part was Yugoslav :3)
-

It was Polish made at PCO and developed by Zbigniew Puzewicz.

So I expect accuracy of the PT-91 to be nerfed to 20%.


From what I know, Iskra exported laser tech to Poland.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Ultimaratio » Fri 3 Feb 2017 13:03

Really interesting mod. Have u ask Eugen to help you? What i mean is, if the support for RD is done, that Eugen could make a "beta" so we can switch via Steam between vanilla and mod.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Narcissistic Black » Fri 3 Feb 2017 13:52

Ultimaratio wrote:Really interesting mod. Have u ask Eugen to help you? What i mean is, if the support for RD is done, that Eugen could make a "beta" so we can switch via Steam between vanilla and mod.


Eugen has already stated they will not make any effort toward or against any mods.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby eMeM » Fri 3 Feb 2017 14:09

Twardy's passive armour was to be improved by addition of the CAWA composite armour, but it was abandoned due to budget cuts. It would improve protection to 500-550 RHA against KE (without ERA IIRC). Dunno how it translates to wargame, I don't remember the formula, but Twardy's armour in RD accounts for this upgrade.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Razzmann » Fri 3 Feb 2017 14:52

Dev Diary #4

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Greetings everyone, as promised yesterday, today we'll take a look at Eurocorps! While the amount of changes is fairly low compared to Scandinavia and especially Red Dragons, they are still quite impactful and should make it play more similarly to its former playstyle.

Eurocorps had its fair share of being at the top of the food chain during the lifespan of Wargame: Red Dragon, however especially since back when Jäger got nerfed to 15 points, Eurocorps slowly, but surely, vanished into thin air. During the last months of 2016 it got several buffs and became a decent deck again, however it never returned to its former glory.

The most impactful change for Eurocorps is certainly the role swap of Panzergrenadiere and Jäger. Panzergrenadiere have been changed to line infantry, with the 75 version receiving the Blindicide as an AT weapon instead of the Pzf 44, in order to allow us buffing it to 10pts.
Jäger have been reroled into Gebirgsjäger, a 15men shock squad available for motorized decks. We are fully aware that nearly every 15men squad right now is underperforming, however this is the basis for a global 15men squad buff, that we plan to put into our mod, once we are at a certain development stage.

Spoiler : :
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As always, make sure to stay updated, in the next dev diary we'll be talking about NORAD!

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby FoxZz » Fri 3 Feb 2017 15:13

I don't like this swap.

The flavour of West-Ger was strong mech and armoured forces, Pazgrens were one of the few shock squads available to Armored and Mech and it made sense, the moto stuff was more on the French side, with France bringing the moto and airborne shock while Ger would bring the armored and mech. Mechanised stuff was the heart of the German deck, and this change make Germany ordinary.

I think this mods is going in the wrong direction and is getting lost with too many rerolls and big changes rather than focusing on smaller and simpler changes with a few rerolls here and there, at the cost of losing the feeling of the game. I feel you're wasting your time on over-ambitious grand changes rather than focusing on smaller but more numerous changes that would actually improve the balance and not create an all differant one.

TBH the changes proposed won't improve the deck at all. Why taking the shock Jager over Rima or Legion ? The deck already has good shock moto, but will lose good shock mech.

The Jager/PZF44 issue could have been solved a lot more easilly and realistically by giving Panzergrens and FSJ 70' Carl Gustav M2 and nerfing the Pzf44 to 15 AP, then the Jager could have been buffed to 10 points.

Other meaningfull changes could have been adding the Marder 2 to Deckunsgruppe, some price buff in the EC vehicle line, some plane tweaks (ex : rocket plane), some buff for the AMX30 line and price buff for the Leo 2 line.

I'll still wait and see to give a final judgement and hope the released mod will be great nonetheless because I think the idea of a community support for the game is great, but please, come back to more reasonable changes.

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Razzmann » Fri 3 Feb 2017 15:33

FoxZz wrote:Panzergrenadiere

From our perspective, the flavour were the cheap Jäger, both in armoured and mech, being the main infantry (unless you speak of the 15pt Panzergrenadiere which were outright broken). And especially since (Gebirgs)jäger are more suited for shock infantry and Panzergrenadiere more for regular, we decided to do this roleswap.

FoxZz wrote:Gebirgsjäger

Like I wrote, the Gebirgsjäger change is not final yet. From our perspective, France should provied the shock and fast infantry while Germany the line and tracked infantry. Gebirgsjäger will hopefully fill the role of city brawlers, once we have decided how to buff 15men squads.

FoxZz wrote:The Jager/PZF44 issue could have been solved a lot more easilly and realistically by giving Panzergrens and FSJ 70' Carl Gustav M2 and nerfing the Pzf44 to 15 AP, then the Jager could have been buffed to 10 points.

Possibly, but we thought that Panzergrenadiere were better suited for line infantry, as this also allows better use of the IFVs, which were pretty much ignored (besides the Marder 2) because combined with the rather expensive Panzergrenadiere, they were just not cost effective enough.

FoxZz wrote:Other meaningfull changes could have been adding the Marder 2 to Deckunsgruppe, some price buff in the EC vehicle line, some plane tweaks (ex : rocket plane), some buff for the AMX30 line and price buff for the Leo 2 line.

We excluded base Panzergrenadiere from the Marder 2 exactly for the same reason why we did not open Deckugnsgruppe to it: We did not want the vehicle become too cheap in order to still have a reason for players to use the Marder 1 line.
AMX-30 line and plane tweaks are certainly very reasonable, but we wanted to focus on the more important changes for now. Stuff like this will certainly be reviewed once we have a rather balanced version so we can look more into these types of units and specializations.

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby FoxZz » Fri 3 Feb 2017 16:06

Razzmann wrote:
FoxZz wrote:Panzergrenadiere

From our perspective, the flavour were the cheap Jäger, both in armoured and mech, being the main infantry (unless you speak of the 15pt Panzergrenadiere which were outright broken). And especially since (Gebirgs)jäger are more suited for shock infantry and Panzergrenadiere more for regular, we decided to do this roleswap.

FoxZz wrote:Gebirgsjäger

Like I wrote, the Gebirgsjäger change is not final yet. From our perspective, France should provied the shock and fast infantry while Germany the line and tracked infantry. Gebirgsjäger will hopefully fill the role of city brawlers, once we have decided how to buff 15men squads.

FoxZz wrote:The Jager/PZF44 issue could have been solved a lot more easilly and realistically by giving Panzergrens and FSJ 70' Carl Gustav M2 and nerfing the Pzf44 to 15 AP, then the Jager could have been buffed to 10 points.

Possibly, but we thought that Panzergrenadiere were better suited for line infantry, as this also allows better use of the IFVs, which were pretty much ignored (besides the Marder 2) because combined with the rather expensive Panzergrenadiere, they were just not cost effective enough.

FoxZz wrote:Other meaningfull changes could have been adding the Marder 2 to Deckunsgruppe, some price buff in the EC vehicle line, some plane tweaks (ex : rocket plane), some buff for the AMX30 line and price buff for the Leo 2 line.

We excluded base Panzergrenadiere from the Marder 2 exactly for the same reason why we did not open Deckugnsgruppe to it: We did not want the vehicle become too cheap in order to still have a reason for players to use the Marder 1 line.
AMX-30 line and plane tweaks are certainly very reasonable, but we wanted to focus on the more important changes for now. Stuff like this will certainly be reviewed once we have a rather balanced version so we can look more into these types of units and specializations.


But since the gerbirgsjager will mostly be mounted on Fuchs, they will have the same role as the french fast shock troops.
Considering the high price of Pzgrens, I see several solution : making Pzgrens better : 825m Pzf3, CGM2 for the base version, Marder 1A2 and 1A3 with medium optics, Marder 2 at 2HE, would make them better bang for the buck.
Then why not cheaper IFVs, like 10 point Marder 1 ? Could be a flavour of W.Ger, would actually make sense. Pzgrens also have acces to 5 point transport.
This would also solve the fire support problem of the deck.

Furthermore, IRL Panzergrens had a very specific training around mechanized warfare and were an infantry really specialised around interaction with armor and armored combat, which made them quiet a unique and powerfull force which warrant the shock trait, shock as very proficient in their field. Especially on Cold War battlefiels with such a focus on mechanised warfare. That's why turning them into a mainly anti-inf force for city brawling doesn't fit, would be more the Jager role with an infantry platoon relying on several MGs to gain the fire superiority rather than vehicles.

At last, cheap infantry in IFV is provided by Chasseurs in the very decent AMX10P and AMX13VTT, Chasseurs in 10P is already rarely used, with what you're proposing, there would be no reason to take them.
The current roster make sense :

- cheap anti inf line : Jager
- multi role line : Chasseurs
- polyvalent shock mech and armored : Panzergrens
- fast shock/light inf for specialised decks : Legion and Rima
- Resilient SF : Commando Marine
- High DPS SF : FSJs

It's perfect, why change it ? Just fix the Jager issue, the CGM2 solution is the perfect one, both realistic and gameplay wise.

On Marder 2, the decision of keeping room for the base Marder make sense, but then, imho, they should be turned into a rare but very capable prototype. So back to 1 card, 2 HE, eventually armor buff and small price nerf.

I'm glad you'll consider further changes in the future when the balance is set up and I look foward to that.

PS : Imho the Celtic could easilly go down to 60 points. 65 points is still high for a 4HP, single role chopper.
Last edited by FoxZz on Fri 3 Feb 2017 17:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Akkku » Fri 3 Feb 2017 16:08

The Bundeswehr never used RL-100, but don't judge. This mod is about fantasy, not realism.
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Re: Faustmann Balance Mod Announcement

Postby Mister Maf » Fri 3 Feb 2017 17:31

While I understand these changes, I can't say I agree with them. Panzergrenadiere in Marder IFVs are expensive, yes, but also a powerful combination, especially since the shock veterancy benefits the Marders. A platoon of Pzgrens '90 in Marders is a great asset to armored formations for clearing out forests in the way of your mechanized advance, and dulling them down to line infantry severely damages them in this role. This was definitely a strength for Eurocorps (and DGC) over some decks restricted to mechanized line infantry.

Think about Entente and EB armored — they trade the power of Soviet supertanks for strong mechanized shock infantry — that's what makes them so good. Eurocorps doesn't have to make that trade; they get Leopard 2A5s and shock infantry. Their weakness comes from other areas, and this change just makes them weaker.

Also, giving Pzgrens the Blindicide is historically silly, to say the least.

These changes also damage mechanized decks while doing nothing for motorized ones because they make Jäger redundant with the French deck contributions. France contributes motorized infantry and wheeled support while Germany contributes mechanized ones. Those are their "things", and it's part of their interesting coalition dynamic.

Keep the existing roles and give Jäger either the CGM2 or, if you really must, the Blindicide. Infantry problems solved.

If there's anything Eurocorps needs, it's Very Good optics mechanized recon. Commonwealth, too. Both could also use some tweaks to their air forces.
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