[MOD] Wargame: 1991

nande
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby nande » Sat 21 Jul 2018 16:40

high stealth and low range, but high splash, HEAT. Perhaps transported by sappers, or the 2 man SF teams.
Without replenishment, I think they'd be quite fun. After all, you have the Tor M1, and even ground SEAD.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Eukie » Sat 21 Jul 2018 20:15

nande wrote:high stealth and low range, but high splash, HEAT. Perhaps transported by sappers, or the 2 man SF teams.
Without replenishment, I think they'd be quite fun. After all, you have the Tor M1, and even ground SEAD.


Neither Tor M1 nor ground-launched SEAD change fundamental aspects of the game much. Tor M1 gives you a small anti-LGB umbrella but it can still be engaged by SEAD without issue. Keres is a new concept but still just serves as a counter to radar-AA. Landmines would end up being a very powerful area denial tool in a game already prone to static positions with potential for outright abuse - or simply end up useless because you can't project them far enough to make a difference.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Fodder » Wed 1 Aug 2018 19:33

FrangibleCover wrote:Poland used the Vasilek (as Wasilok) since 1984. The lack of a self propelled mortar was killing Polish National decks and so they've received a mortar they operated on a platform they operated that we have a model for and was a real field modification in Soviet service. It's representing towed Vasilek and there's quite some precedent for it, look at the French, Yugoslav and Chinese mortar carriers too.

France and Yugoslav did have self-propelled mortars and in service, only China didn't and Chinese self-propelled mortars were prototypes that never enter service. So only chinese and poland won't have mortars in the support tab?

Hence why it is assigned to a team of Mesterlovszek, Hungarian snipers. They've been attached to the Czechoslovak army, since they're the only interesting unit we could possibly get from Hungary and we don't have the nation slots to add Hungary anew. All other Hungarian capabilities are covered by NSWP so you could build a Hungarian roleplay deck if you so wished.

Alrite, sounds good

No, they're representing towed systems again. If we didn't represent towed AA then most BLU minors would be totally unplayable, which is unrealistic since they had plenty of AA. Realism isn't about the realistic inputs, it's about the realistic outcomes.

sure, I agree

TA-4SU is called that because we happen to have the model, it's identical to the performance of an A-4SU but partially corrects one of Eugen's bigger model fuck ups. Both T-2s are carrying loads that an F-1 could carry and are basically just spare names. However, I firmly believe that all three aircraft would be used, along with the armed trainers of all other nations, in the event of a Third World War, at the very least as attrition replacements if not immediately. The L-39ZA had an attack role, the British Hawk T.1s were armed with ADEN pods and Sidewinders for air interception, Belgium's Alpha Jet trainers were organised for CAS missions immediately upon the start of the war, using the instructor pilots to support 1BE Corps.

A-4SU my mistake. Maybe... but there is difference between T-2 and Alpha Jet, thats why eugen included Alpha Jet and not T-2

People haven't taken more than two cards of Special Forces in non-meme decks since 2014, I don't know what you mean. However you'll note that 1991 mod has downgraded a large number of infantry units from Elite to Shock so we've come some way towards reducing SF proliferation.

Good, but can u reduce them just a little bit more?

Can u give French Mistral and Stingers the same range?
http://airwar.ru/weapon/avv/mistral.html
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mistral.htm
https://books.google.com/books?id=6JMjo ... &q&f=false

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby FrangibleCover » Thu 2 Aug 2018 02:25

Fodder wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Poland used the Vasilek (as Wasilok) since 1984. The lack of a self propelled mortar was killing Polish National decks and so they've received a mortar they operated on a platform they operated that we have a model for and was a real field modification in Soviet service. It's representing towed Vasilek and there's quite some precedent for it, look at the French, Yugoslav and Chinese mortar carriers too.

France and Yugoslav did have self-propelled mortars and in service

That's great to hear, I look forward to your annotated evidence demonstrating that France and Yugoslavia had self-propelled mortars in service in 1991.

So only chinese and poland won't have mortars in the support tab?

Mortars are a core capability, all nations will have self-propelled mortars in the support tab regardless of whether they operated self-propelled variants or only towed ones.

there is difference between T-2 and Alpha Jet, thats why eugen included Alpha Jet and not T-2

What's the difference then? The T-2 wasn't included in vanilla because Eugen were too busy trying to make boats work to make the Dragons good.

People haven't taken more than two cards of Special Forces in non-meme decks since 2014, I don't know what you mean. However you'll note that 1991 mod has downgraded a large number of infantry units from Elite to Shock so we've come some way towards reducing SF proliferation.

Good, but can u reduce them just a little bit more?

Please play a multiplayer game of the mod where SF spam was used to good effect and submit a replay of it. If you can demonstrate that it's viable we'll look into further adjustment. If you don't want SF spam in single player, which is a valid opinion, don't give the AI decks with lots of SF.


Oh God... There have been pages and pages and pages written on this forum about Stinger range. Doubling the range with a guidance and software upgrade is, in our opinion, a pipe dream. Increasing the range is not. Therefore Stinger C has been given 2450m range and lost a bit of accuracy to compensate, as a middle-ground solution.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Guggy » Thu 2 Aug 2018 22:02

Merde!!!!!

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Fodder » Thu 2 Aug 2018 22:14

FrangibleCover wrote:...

You don't have to take my suggestions if you don't want to then.

I'm proposing that Mistral get reduce to 2450m range

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 3 Aug 2018 00:26

Fodder wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:...

You don't have to take my suggestions if you don't want to then.

I'm proposing that Mistral get reduce to 2450m range

But why are you proposing that? What if you compare it to every other MANPADS in the game, is it still out of line?
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Fodder » Fri 3 Aug 2018 06:06

FrangibleCover wrote:But why are you proposing that? What if you compare it to every other MANPADS in the game, is it still out of line?

Mistral's range is nothing special and I don't think it deserves 2625m. It's range is similar to all other manpads.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eMahKD9peC4k
http://www.belgian-wings.be/Webpages/Na ... istral.htm

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby molnibalage » Fri 3 Aug 2018 10:36

Fodder wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:But why are you proposing that? What if you compare it to every other MANPADS in the game, is it still out of line?

Mistral's range is nothing special and I don't think it deserves 2625m. It's range is similar to all other manpads.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eMahKD9peC4k
http://www.belgian-wings.be/Webpages/Na ... istral.htm

Nope, this statement is simply false. It is a half step higher than any MANPAD its range is closer to Strela-1/10M SHORAD. None of classical MANPAD has 4500 m max altitude and Mistral also has about 7-8 km slant range. Even the most avanced Igla has 5,2 km range up to 3700 m altitude.

BTW Mistral is not MANPAD because it is not shoulder launched. It needs launcher station on vehicle which rather makes it SHORAD. (Deployable stand is also an option which is also exclude MANPAD category similar to RBS-70/90. Only because of tradition they are assigned by many people MANPAD but both the SWE and FRA SAMs are not real MANPAD.)

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Fodder » Fri 3 Aug 2018 16:38

molnibalage wrote:Nope, this statement is simply false. It is a half step higher than any MANPAD its range is closer to Strela-1/10M SHORAD. None of classical MANPAD has 4500 m max altitude and Mistral also has about 7-8 km slant range. Even the most avanced Igla has 5,2 km range up to 3700 m altitude.

BTW Mistral is not MANPAD because it is not shoulder launched. It needs launcher station on vehicle which rather makes it SHORAD. (Deployable stand is also an option which is also exclude MANPAD category similar to RBS-70/90. Only because of tradition they are assigned by many people MANPAD but both the SWE and FRA SAMs are not real MANPAD.)

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