[MOD] Wargame: 1991

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Eukie
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Eukie » Mon 16 Jul 2018 01:13

Fodder wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote: mobile HAWK, a little odd to see in game

Not odd its out of place like all heavy SAMs, but SP-HAWK is even more strange bcause only 3 were built in 1969


Equally out of place is the complete lack of towed equipment. But we have models for one of the out-of-place things and including neither is the worst of both worlds.

Fodder wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote: RF-4EJ Kai

Are these planes suppose to be EWA planes or recon? Why does it have binoculars?


ELINT. They can see radar-equipped enemy units, like SEAD-planes can, but don't carry ARMs.

Also, if enemy SF are bothering you, we have a "new" "class" of unit in the game: counter-Spetznas, which are Shock units perfect for the job of killing enemy SF and anything else that looks soft and squishy.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby ST21 » Mon 16 Jul 2018 01:29

molnibalage wrote:F-14B as strike AC is not accurate. Yes, in theory could do it but in RL never performed it similar to F-15A and F-15C.


:?:

First bomb dropped from a Fleet F-14 took place in August 1990. Shortly thereafter, all Tomcat squadrons became air-to-ground capable (initially, only with 'dumb' bombs). The strike role would eventually become one the F-14's most important tasks in the decade that followed and until its retirement.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby molnibalage » Mon 16 Jul 2018 12:54

Eukie wrote:
molnibalage wrote:Why anti LGB for Tor? If you allow shoot down ARM for IDF stuff you should allow for Patriot and Tor either because they had this capability.


Tor had anti-LGB capabilities in the real world, so we decided to simulate them in the mod. There's no Patriot in the mod, so I have no idea why you're mentioning it.

I have not dowloaded and checked. Tor-M1 has anti ARM capability so therefore of course anti LGB is also possible in theory.

For Sweden, the J32E Störlansen. For Japan, RF-4EJ KAI. For Yugoslavia, a helicopter with anti-radar optics. As for your concerns about unicorns, we've tried out best to avoid that (within reason), so you shouldn't have to worry about it.

Rgr.

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Eukie
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Eukie » Mon 16 Jul 2018 15:06

molnibalage wrote:I have not dowloaded and checked. Tor-M1 has anti ARM capability so therefore of course anti LGB is also possible in theory.


We can really only respond to criticisms about how units actually in the mod function, in a meaningful manner.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby molnibalage » Mon 16 Jul 2018 15:26

Eukie wrote:
molnibalage wrote:I have not dowloaded and checked. Tor-M1 has anti ARM capability so therefore of course anti LGB is also possible in theory.


We can really only respond to criticisms about how units actually in the mod function, in a meaningful manner.

If you can allow anti LGB I guess you can allow anti ARM. That was the point of my comment. The problem all SEAD aircraft carry at least two ARMs and they have higher fire rate than SAMs. How select target the unit AI in case of F-117 or Harrier which has 4 LGB?

I had no time try the MOD and against AI you cannot test it because it does not cooperate with you... It won't attack with AC just because I wish...

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby molnibalage » Mon 16 Jul 2018 15:47

FrangibleCover wrote:It's a stated capability of the M1 variant of the system. At the moment we're seeing how it plays in game.

Giving ant-LGB is pointless because in RL it could down only 1 missile with 1 target but in WG all LGBs are dropped so if it does not have area effect it is just waste of missiles. It should have anti-ARM capability rather anti-LGB.

You misunderstand. Keres is an Israeli developed ground-launched Standard ARM carrier. It fires ARMs at things. Currently it's not very good IMO, but it's quite interesting.

Ok, but what shout range? The eng. range in RL with 0 speed and 0 m alt is much less than from AC at med alt with M0.8. About 2800 meter would be real. You cannot go so close in many cases to any radar SAM.

There's not much we can do about this with modding, sadly, but you can still follow the tracers back on the map to see where artillery is firing from, which I've always suspected to be a deliberate counterbattery mechanic.

Can you increase somehow the tracer time length to 30-40 sec? Because current mechanic make just a reflex and gambling the counter arty. If you do not see the fire itself the counterbattery happens way too late.

Most of the Nevas are gone, it's only been left in for Finland since they have literally no other options for long range AA. Honestly I don't see Neva as any worse than mobile HAWK, they're both a little odd to see in game but necessary to represent the AA systems of some nations.

RGR.

The difference is that base Kub was still in widespread service in 1991 and base HAWK was not. The newer Kub M3 is more comparable to modern HAWKs.

In 1991 all Kub was updated to M3 level in WPACT which could do even lock after launch with optical tracking the leading and launch was possible and only in terminal phase was neccessary the CW illumination.

F-14A+/B/D received special avionics including a fairly modern bombing computer. They wouldn't have added this to the aircraft if they didn't expect to use it at some point. There's otherwise not much point in having both, the F-14A is a perfectly acceptable fighter, so the Bombcats are Bombing.

Both F-15A and F-15C had AG modes on the same level as dedicated strike A-7E and USAF never used in AG role. F-14A also could use bomb but followed the same approach. It was too expensive to risk in AG strike the best BARCAP fleet defender platfrom which also had ASF role.

Join the Discord! At the moment we've got multiple games running every European Night.

Discord is some kind of chat SW? How can I find WG players?

I'm sure we'd be interested to hear them. Try the mod out a bit to get a feel for how it plays and then we can have a chat. I think you'll enjoy it, it's more like Airland Battle than vanilla.
[/quote]
Sooner or later I will. I have exact ideas for helos and naval I will gather and post them soon.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby HaryPL » Mon 16 Jul 2018 17:28

Just reviving an excellent topic on ADATS:
https://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?t=47122

Also, the true Roland 2/3 reload rate, unlike gimped RD salvo:

https://youtu.be/5iRJtCZ3ERo?t=140

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molnibalage
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby molnibalage » Mon 16 Jul 2018 17:40

For helos.
viewtopic.php?p=955084#p955084

Basically it would convert the best helos as powerful and rare as best airplanes. Of course SAM and ATGM ranges should be adjusted. It is quite funny that 8 km range Tunguksa has 3375 m range while 8 km range AGM-114 has 2800 m.

Other changes also would be good for helos to increase their survivability and make them less rare to avoid such case where you have more helos than ground units. This is not the reality...

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Eukie
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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby Eukie » Mon 16 Jul 2018 18:23

HaryPL wrote:Just reviving an excellent topic on ADATS:
https://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?t=47122


" mass service entry and full production in 1992"

Maybe if we make Wargame: 1992.

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Re: [MOD] Wargame: 1991

Postby HaryPL » Mon 16 Jul 2018 19:34

By the end of 1991 there were already 2 platoons of four Bradley ADATS in hand of US Army soldiers :shrug:
More than in Canada by that time, as someone notes in replies. And that's in OTL where Soviet Union was already a collapsed joke.

Any scenario where ALT Soviets meet non-disarming-itself NATO (as it did in OTL) means that there would be even more; if not on Bradles then on 113s.

So it's hardly different than any late 1991 unit that's already in as far as cut-off goes.

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