A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Elder Forest
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby Elder Forest » Sun 16 Aug 2015 12:55

To pile on a bit more encouragement what you have done so far is is excellent so you ought to go for it - and with the new maps coming out the game will live on for some time yet so it won't be wasted.

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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby steppewolf » Wed 2 Sep 2015 08:52

Great read Mr. Maf, I am eagerly waiting for Planes section

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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby AmpsterMan » Sun 6 Sep 2015 06:51

I'll put my thoughts in as well. After reading this guide, i want to play more national decks. I never realized Czech were so powerful in game

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Javelin33
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby Javelin33 » Wed 28 Oct 2015 01:43

Love the Czech units!

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Mister Maf
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby Mister Maf » Tue 1 Nov 2016 19:55

Hey everyone! Now that the game has gone through several balance patches, I've started updating this thread again! I added logistics and recon sections, and have already updated everything to reflect balance changes of the past couple years, except for ground infantry transports. I have not yet updated any of the pictures, and the new sections also don't have pictures yet, but they are coming! After the Moderna availability buff and removal of the NSWP coalition bonus, I think the Czech national deck is as strong as it's ever been.

Stay tuned for more!

Edit, Nov 15: I wrote the entire rest of the guide, but lost all of my progress up to the currently displayed draft. I'm very busy with real life things right now, so the rest of the guide is on hold for the moment.
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Dundradal
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby Dundradal » Fri 25 Nov 2016 21:18

Thank you for this and linking to the DDR guide. As someone who's trying to learn and master all the in's-and-out's, this is a great help.

Keep up the good work!

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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby MURDERFIESTA » Sun 18 Dec 2016 21:45

On the subject of the PRAM AVRE... I love this thing. If I had the option of a real AVRE or the PRAM, I would take the PRAM every time. It's more mobile so it can be where I need it when I need it, it has that wonderful ATGM, and the range on the cannon means I shouldn't need to be using the armor. It's also, psychologically, generally unexpected by enemies. Most enemies probably aren't familiar with the PRAM, so it won't send up the same warning signs as an AVRE.

I tend to play national+specialization decks (motorized or armored - though I generally prefer the armored deck as more versatile) and made it to 1st Lieutenant back when I was playing a lot using an armored deck *in the cityfight meta*. I can't guarantee that my current armored deck is exactly the same as what I was using back then, but here it is: @RsMBkQYphUsaUp8NKVMGlItAxEcSkia8JnIniscoQCWWrom9SxEcZHGSz4jpHxZrWoJDPCW2axk6JpCpEkHagis0hqKDkppKaJEmrdGuKUQ=

What might come across as unusual about this deck is that I think Motostrelci are great, and more than that I think the OT-64A/C and the BVP-1 are great. I also think Pancerovnici are good (though I'd like to see them be classified as light infantry). Call me insane. This ends up being a function of the following factors:

For the BVP-1:
1. I don't like transports that do nothing for my fighting infantry (this does not apply to FIST or other infantry support teams). That means the OT-62A and OT-62B (8 rounds for the Tarasnice is not enough - BVP-1 carries *40* and has 9 RPM instead of 7).
2. I want to have combined arms superiority through cost efficiency at the local scale. What I mean by this is I want my units to be cheap, cost-effective, and plentiful. Yes, that 35 point unit of kustjagare will mulch my unit of motostrelci, but once the kustjagare's transport is included I can get two motostrelci+transports for the price of that one kustjagare unit.
3. The BVP-1 is 40% cheaper than the BVP-2, and for what I want it to be doing (close infantry fire support - especially suppression) I do not think it is 40% less effective than the BVP-2. Plus, with the points saved, every two motostrelci units I call in means I can get a free AGS-17 in an OT-62A for example, which contributes to even more local superiority.

For the OT-64A/C:
1. I am a huge fan of the KPVT because of the true RoF advantage it has over most autocannons. No, it is not as good as an autocannon in many situations, but it is better than an autocannon for what I want it to be doing and that is...
2. Flanking harrassment. OT-64s have huge autonomy, which means they make an excellent (and plentiful) unit for sending through out-of-the-way terrain (especially forests) where recon presence is likely to be low, to get into the enemy's back line and start mulching squishy things. This is where the KPVT is actually better than the autocannon - the higher rate of fire means 0AV/1AV targets die faster at close range, giving fewer indications of what is going on and fewer chances to react. A properly executed OT-64A/C outflank is terrifying, and is the reason I will always choose to mount my wheeled infantry in a 15 points KPVT transport over a 10 points MG transport.
3. This also comes back to point 1 I made for the BVP-1 - I don't like putting my primary fighting infantry in transports that do nothing.

For Pancerovnici:
If you took a look at my deck you probably noticed that I have a stack of 21 Pancerovnici in the 30 point BVP-2. I use these as tank-hunters (in retrospect I realized I should up-vet them). They're cheap, disposable, and have the highest AP infantry weapon available to Czech forces (with an excellent rate of fire at 15 RPM) outside of Vysadkari '90 and Specialni Jednotky '90, which are not available to Armored. I put them in the really expensive BVP-2 because that is my only way of getting a vehicle-mounted Konkurs-M on the field in an armored deck, and I only deploy them once heavy armor starts hitting the field. However, Pancerovnici's utility extends past being tank-hunters. They have *excellent* suppression, decent range, and more versatility (while being cheaper) than Zeniste, and have more burst suppression than Granatomet while again being cheaper, so they can fill for Granatomet's suppression role in a pinch.


*On Zaloznici: I never use them. They don't fit my playstyle.
*On MANPADS: I always bring a stack of Strela-3. They're not great, but MANPADS are a critical component of any ADN and you'll regret not having them when helicopters are sniffing around an exposed urban position.

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Mister Maf
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby Mister Maf » Wed 4 Jan 2017 08:11

And it's done! I plan to continue updating this thread as the game is patched, but as of January 4, 2017, Maf's Czech Unit Guide is complete. Shower me in praise and feedback. :lol:
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby CommanderDef » Wed 4 Jan 2017 10:15

Mister Maf wrote:And it's done! I plan to continue updating this thread as the game is patched, but as of January 4, 2017, Maf's Czech Unit Guide is complete. Shower me in praise and feedback. :lol:

Praising, fellow comrade. I have just few points to feedback:
1. After change of RM-70 to AP, you might want to rewrite the comment.
2. STROP is probably just an abbreviation and has nothing to do with 'ceiling'. Also, the version in game is actually Slovakian version called BRAMS.
3. There are more 10 men recons with sniper rifle, JSDF Rangers for example. This kind of infantry will loose to other shock inf in short range encounter, because snipers lack the suppression of LMG.
4. Pram-S real life vehicle and mortar is probably the same thing, separated in wargame for same reason as cheap spaags and their FSV versions. I use direct fire vehicle in armor deck just as a cheap support for heavy tanks. HE has some stun effect, Konkurs is not shiny, but can do that difference I need for Moderna to win over other superheavy (superheavier) tanks.
5. Planes, that would be a longer list. First, notice how crappy MiG-23ML is, it's ECM is lower than Su-22 bomber or MiG-21 fighter. Also notice 1s on SA missiles, I never understood why it is there. Fortunately, CSSR has two cards of KUB-M4 to shoot things down reliably...
6. L39ZA is an important asset of my armored deck, because a 60 point plane can quite reliably kill a Longbow. Yes, you get 3 veterans. Consider trying... I prefer taking it over the weird SEAD.
7. MiG-23BN comes with 3 veterans, which I think makes better option than 1 veteran Su-25. But it is not a great plane. It can also help with helicopters, as their Molnyia comes in 1s between shots.

I can post the armored deck if you are interested.
Sometimes I wish my country wasn't included in the beginning, but coming as a paid DLC...
Spoiler : :
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Mister Maf
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Re: A Czechoslovakian Unit Guide

Postby Mister Maf » Wed 4 Jan 2017 12:34

CommanderDef wrote:1. After change of RM-70 to AP, you might want to rewrite the comment.

You're right, I forgot about that change. I don't really understand the reasoning behind it, either.

2. STROP is probably just an abbreviation and has nothing to do with 'ceiling'. Also, the version in game is actually Slovakian version called BRAMS.

It may indeed be an abbreviation or acronym, but if it is, I'm not finding it. All the documentation I come across just calls it "CEILING". As for the BRAMS — what's the difference and how do you know?

3. There are more 10 men recons with sniper rifle, JSDF Rangers for example. This kind of infantry will loose to other shock inf in short range encounter, because snipers lack the suppression of LMG.

Right, I forgot about JSDF Rangers. Finland added the Sissi sniper squad, as well. I'll update it.

4. Pram-S real life vehicle and mortar is probably the same thing, separated in wargame for same reason as cheap spaags and their FSV versions. I use direct fire vehicle in armor deck just as a cheap support for heavy tanks. HE has some stun effect, Konkurs is not shiny, but can do that difference I need for Moderna to win over other superheavy (superheavier) tanks.

That's what I figured the most likely explanation to be, but one is labeled vz.82 and the other 85, so I really don't know.

5. Planes, that would be a longer list. First, notice how crappy MiG-23ML is, it's ECM is lower than Su-22 bomber or MiG-21 fighter. Also notice 1s on SA missiles, I never understood why it is there. Fortunately, CSSR has two cards of KUB-M4 to shoot things down reliably...

I know the MiG-23 only has 10% ECM, which is why I said what I said about avoiding head-on fights with enemy ASFs or straying into enemy air defense. It's still capable of taking down enemy attack planes when you send out the entire group. I posted the 1s delay on the missiles in the inconsistencies thread.

6. L39ZA is an important asset of my armored deck, because a 60 point plane can quite reliably kill a Longbow. Yes, you get 3 veterans. Consider trying... I prefer taking it over the weird SEAD.

A pair of STROP-2s can also easily take down a Longbow with one loss, which is also a 60-point trade. I did some testing against the AI and found that, while two L-39ZAs did indeed reliably kill Apaches, one was never able to do the job by itself. The missiles are just too inaccurate, and even if they both connect, the cannon has to do 2 damage to finish it off, which is unlikely.

7. MiG-23BN comes with 3 veterans, which I think makes better option than 1 veteran Su-25. But it is not a great plane. It can also help with helicopters, as their Molnyia comes in 1s between shots.

This is true and something I will add. I usually bring my Su-25Ks at rookie because of their unguided secondary weapons.

Thanks for the feedback. :)
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