Some greenhorn questions

kiselev1189
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby kiselev1189 » Fri 6 Feb 2015 12:14

Hi there! Just accidentally noticed this thread and found some screenshots from the game i played against you. Just add me to friends in wargame, can play on your side and help to learn the basics.
By the way, I play only destruction, in my opinion, conquest breaks the immersion into modern combat completely.

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IIIHunterIII
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby IIIHunterIII » Fri 6 Feb 2015 17:26

LoneRifle wrote:
1) This is the most important: I can see that you're playing the game mode called Destruction. This game mode is presented as the 'default' game mode because of the campaign, and it's also the most intuitive - kill units, see floating points. However, I would strongly advise that you play Conquest instead. Virtually every single competitive player, Wargaming Veteran, forum staff member, or Wargame developer prefers Conquest over Destruction - it's a much better designed game mode. This isn't the place to go into detail about the game modes, but I spend a lot of time mentoring new players and the first thing I tell them is get used to Conquest.


That's not a very fair assumption and supposition Raven. I respect your skill and what you do for the beginners but that is not the way to open the game to them by cutting them off from half of it. The game modes are different but to go out and bash one and claim "all the elite players" play one and only one is bs. Not only is there balance between hosted destruction and conquest games but to go out and claim that the best place to learn (and where are the best players are) Wargame is in Conquest is ludicrous. For your tutorials and skillset sure. But don't go bashing us TD no TL and destruction folks. Better to let the players decide for themselves what they like and where they want to improve their game rather then push them towards a singular game mode and claim it is the only way to learn.

I can see your concern. However Wargame is balanced around the Conquest game-mode. So for the best multiplayer experience I'd strongly recommend to play conquest.
There are many reasons why this decision was made, I won't go into detail this post on reddit sums it up pretty nicely, if it interests you at all. Also the best players tend to be found in conquest, it's not ludicrous but a consequence of the more competitive game-mode.
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby LoneRifle » Fri 6 Feb 2015 19:15

IIIHunterIII wrote:I can see your concern. However Wargame is balanced around the Conquest game-mode. So for the best multiplayer experience I'd strongly recommend to play conquest.
There are many reasons why this decision was made, I won't go into detail this post on reddit sums it up pretty nicely, if it interests you at all. Also the best players tend to be found in conquest, it's not ludicrous but a consequence of the more competitive game-mode.


The point was Hunter that this isn't the realm to discuss gamemode superiority . This is supposed to be where you give gameplay tips, not bash a gamemode that half of wargame plays. If the greenhorns want to learn by playing destruction, don't go telling them it's the "inferior" game mode. If they want to learn by playing conquest I won't bother them either. So why not let the younglings learn and discover on their own and teach them how to win with BOTH gamemodes and don't go filling their heads with negative 1st impressions and a belief the majority of "elite" play a one gamemode and not the other when it comes down to personnel preference.
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby raventhefuhrer » Fri 6 Feb 2015 19:16

LoneRifle wrote:The game modes are different but to go out and bash one and claim "all the elite players" play one and only one is bs.


It's literally true though, or at least so close to true that it doesn't matter. The vast majority of the 'elite' players play conquest. Conquest was created and designed specifically because Destruction was such a poor mode, and a hold over from past games. As Hunter says, the game is designed and balanced around Conquest. Ranked play is conquest.

LoneRifle wrote:But don't go bashing us TD no TL and destruction folks.


Well...come on. TD no TL is a special little niche of the destruction community, which I guess works fine but most people don't have the time or inclination to play open-ended games that can go on for quite some time. I don't mean to insult you or say that you're a scrub for preferring destruction, although since the game mode issue is so polarized I can see where that impression comes from.

LoneRifle wrote:Better to let the players decide for themselves what they like and where they want to improve their game rather then push them towards a singular game mode and claim it is the only way to learn.


Again this isn't the place to debate virtues of one game mode over the other, so I didn't want to get into it. But I regard Conquest as the best and most serious game mode - it is my opinion that a large percentage of destruction players only do so because it was presented as the 'default' game mode by the campaign, so I wanted to nip that in the bud. Point in fact virtually everyone I've forced to play Conquest with me over the course of tutoring, or just meeting new people, has changed their preference after a few games.

Presumably you would agree that timed destruction - which the OP seemingly was playing - is crap. Otherwise you wouldn't play TD no TL.
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby LoneRifle » Fri 6 Feb 2015 21:08

Looks like the Greenhorns are gonna get there first look at Wargame politics.

You entirely missed the point about personnel preferences and letting people learn and decide what they like best Raven. Every player has their own personnel preference as to what gamemode they will like. It's not your place to proselytize to the Greenhorns asking for gameplay advice for their decks and strategies that they are playing the "wrong gamemode"

The vast majority of the 'elite' players play conquest

See this ridiculous notion that "only the best" play Conquest is so juvenile its funny. I've beaten the "elite" of Wargame to many times to count in Conquest matches, to think they are somehow superior just because the majority of games they played were Conquest over Destruction is stupid. Good players are good players no matter the gamemode. Saying they are better simply because they play one game mode over the other is not true.

Ranked play is conquest

That doesn't matter one iota when teaching people. Especially ones that have no interest in laddering.

I don't mean to insult you or say that you're a scrub for preferring destruction, although since the game mode issue is so polarized I can see where that impression comes from.

I went out of my way to be polite about you criticizing the gamemodes and not letting players learn at their own pace and in the gamemodes they might like. And then I get called a scrub. So much for being good natured.

Again this isn't the place to debate virtues of one game mode over the other, so I didn't want to get into it.

Then why did you start doing it earlier and you still continue now? I haven't said a WORD in favor of my own favorite gamemode and refrained from talking about the ones I don't. It's very poor form to bash game modes to get people to play the other simply because YOU find it to be the better one. If you are a good teacher, wouldn't it better to let the players find their own way and tutor the ones that wish to be tutored in Conquest and the ones that want to play Destruction learn there?

Presumably you would agree that timed destruction - which the OP seemingly was playing - is crap. Otherwise you wouldn't play TD no TL.

I don't like anything with points or limits. But......
If it was crap why did he learn a valuable lesson about guarding his flanks from it? Whether or not I like the gamemode is not the concern here. Making sure people like him are getting better is.
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby raventhefuhrer » Sat 7 Feb 2015 00:18

LoneRifle wrote:I went out of my way to be polite about you criticizing the gamemodes and not letting players learn at their own pace and in the gamemodes they might like. And then I get called a scrub. So much for being good natured.


Well, I don't want to spend five pages arguing over game modes.

What I originally said was that I didn't mean to say you were a scrub, or anything like that. Everyone has their preference, I feel strongly about mine and I feel strongly enough to try and pass that on to newer players.

It's not worth arguing about. If you felt I was attacking you personally then I apologize because I didn't mean to. I suspect the OP's given up on us already given the tone in his last few posts :?
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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby Ghostweed » Sat 7 Feb 2015 00:22

and again, once a helpfull thread was changed into TD vs CQ :cry:

Mods can u pls delete offtopic responses plix plox? :? (including this one ofc)

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Re: Some greenhorn questions

Postby LoneRifle » Sat 7 Feb 2015 00:29

raventhefuhrer wrote:It's not worth arguing about. If you felt I was attacking you personally then I apologize because I didn't mean to. I suspect the OP's given up on us already given the tone in his last few posts :?


There are no hard feelings here Raven. Like I said, you are one of the few trying to improve the community actively. And I don't think he has given up.
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He will see some fun when he gets back though
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