RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

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James-Bond
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RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby James-Bond » Sat 18 Jun 2016 08:26

Hello looking for a tips Deck tips for Eastern Block Coalition / National Decks,

Just trying to play as different nations rather than just USSR.
out of the 3 Eastern Block Nations, I play East-Germany Most, mainly for LStR-40, AA/ATGM Helo and the MiG-29 F&F fighter.
but I find when I use the coalition, it doesn't really add to the deck (compared to BlueFor coalitions), I could just pick USSR instead, get +5 action points, and a better Air force.

I do like playing Chinese motorized, (really enjoy that recon Tank + good Vehicle Tab)
I find when Eastern Block Motorized is a one trick pony of spamming shock / SF infantry, tanks lack armour,
ATGM lack AP value (-1 card of konkurs-m)
Mechanized, seems that it doesn't have access to LStR-40, or AA Helicopters, commandos are helicopter transport only (think Hinds?)

few other questions:
Are any MRLS worth it? (Napalm /HE /AP)
Best way to counter Arty?
shock Light ATGM Infantry (E-ger) or Konkur ATGM?
Air Superiority with Redfor less expensive fighter, safety in numbers?
MiG-31m, worth it?

urogard
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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby urogard » Sat 18 Jun 2016 17:28

James-Bond wrote:Are any MRLS worth it? (Napalm /HE /AP)

BM-24 HE, Uragan
Both firing at minimum range, everything else is worthless
James-Bond wrote:Best way to counter Arty?

Don't keep units in tight clusters and move your AA after it fires
James-Bond wrote:shock Light ATGM Infantry (E-ger) or Konkur ATGM?

neither, but if you really get a hard on from ATGMs then get konkurs-m only or gornos 90'
James-Bond wrote:Air Superiority with Redfor less expensive fighter, safety in numbers?

as long as it gets 50-60% acc on it's MRAAMS you're fine, either strategy works
[/quote]MiG-31m, worth it?[/quote]
only for detection in an airborne deck, not worth slot in 5 card air tab

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Mister Maf
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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby Mister Maf » Sat 18 Jun 2016 18:34

TBH I kind of feel the same way about the Czechs. Eastern Bloc has a lot of really cool stuff, but nothing that I feel is worth trading the 5 AP and massive national availability bonus.

Still, if it gives you any inspiration, here are some samples.

My Czech deck:
Spoiler : :

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czech dech.png
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My E.Bloc deck (which, note, I never use):
Spoiler : :

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sviRJ4OxypPB2OU6UsloNCKphqHTdWqnIRVX1aqWMs1G5QmcqGX5LTqsyiZr000ajNiqtFQRrc1Ka6UjuziNQlAyoJbNVKyg

bloc deck.png
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Solo's E.Block deck (which he does use):
Spoiler : :

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solo's deck.png
solo's deck.png (252.93 KiB) Viewed 2601 times


For MLRS, the more HE, the better. Uragan and French M270 are the best. Then of course there's the Smerch, Buratino, and ATACMS, but those are separate beasts.

To deal with artillery, units that are able to wind up quickly and deal high damage are your best bets for counterbattery. This means modern howitzers and 120mm mortars. Otherwise, keep your units spread out and moving, and always move your own artillery immediately after firing. AA should be moved after it reveals itself, too.

Gornostrelki '90 are super strong, but Konkurs-M is also good. Light Rifles '90 are decent but very overpriced, while Light Rifles '75 are good not for the missile but for the machine gun vs. infantry. Gornostrelki '75 and its Bloc equivalents I don't find to be super great, especially because Leichte-Schützen are "shock" but with regular veterancy levels and a PKM.

In general, I find upvetting ATGM infantry as much as possible makes them more effective since they need to make every shot count.

For ASFs, I like to take two cards — usually a high-end and a medium/low-end, ideally all at high veterancy. Things like an elite Eurofighter with two elite Tornado F.2s, an elite Su-27M/Su-27PU with two veteran MiG-25PDs, etc. Sending them all out together gets you way more missiles for the buck than just getting a couple high-end ones, especially if you only got one card of two rookie top-end ASFs instead of an elite one. I see the new option to get two rookies as a bit of a noob trap; veteran and elite planes are leagues more effective because they land hits and resist getting stunned, while rookies will let targets go and fly into the enemy ADN when they get stunned. Even the 100pt Czech MiG-23ML, which comes at 3/elite in a national deck, is very effective at shooting down bombers even if it is worthless in a head-on ASF fight due to its low ECM.

That's just my philosophy, though. Some people would rather use those plane slots for something else.

Regarding the MiG-31M, it makes a good combat air patrol plane on big maps because of its exceptional air detection and long ToT. This lets your other ASFs get an early warning of incoming planes so they can make the trip from the deployment zone to the frontline sooner. I'd only really do this in an airborne deck where you get lots of plane slots, though. Same for the Tomcat in marine/airborne.
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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby ReniferS » Fri 7 Oct 2016 15:15

I have seen that a few people use basic motoshutzen in btr80 as their base infantry in E Bloc decks.

I myself use Spados in Skot 2 (5 points cheaper).

I was wonderong which would be more efective:
1. Spadochroniarze in Skot 2 25 points
2. Motoshutzen in BTR80 30 points
3. Spadochroniarze in Skot 2 AP 30 points
?

Please note the i am also using Motoshutzen 90 in a BMP2 (no atgm).
Last edited by ReniferS on Fri 7 Oct 2016 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby infamous » Fri 7 Oct 2016 16:17

Base MotSchutzen and the BMP-1 (10Points) is the most used combination. So much value for 25 points, now with the AV buff probably even better than pre DLC.

Other notable transport options for MotSchutzen would be the BMP-2 or the SPW-50 (with 2AV now IIRC)

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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby ReniferS » Fri 7 Oct 2016 18:05

I already have the Moto 90 in a tracked transport. I would prefer the normal shock infantry in a wheeled transport.
The question is which transport to get:
SKOT 2: because it is 5 pts cheaper and still wheeled
SKOT 2 AM: ATGMS
SKOT 2 AP: More anti helo range
BTR 80: More AP, best accuracy.

Note that there is no difference between Motoshutzen, Spadochroniarze and Vysadkary. So the winnner depends on the transport.

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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby Rabidnid » Sun 9 Oct 2016 03:54

My NSWP mechanised deck. I do think the coalition adds to a deck, though I can make do with unspec deck from any of the 3 nations.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.c ... 679573615/

@TFkDCmwiDE+epqvBc1XguZBQXMgo94Ic9SUsaVqYNKxxKSQnwmpSo5Sq4JpCUCs1rOJQ0pEpUSCCr8q8Sn0p8kHROUTtK1R8mZ5rPYjyd4A=

I change it all the time - usually the vehicle tab is empty - but you get the idea.
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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby Fodder » Sun 16 Oct 2016 20:52

James-Bond wrote:Hello

I try my best to answer all your questions.
- Yes, Mechanized does not have LSTR-40, and Commandos don't have helo transports except hinds. But they do have 1 AA Helo (Mi-2 URS)
- MLRS are worth it but only if it's your play style. MLRS napalm good for area denial and entrenched infantry. MLRS cluster-bombs good for counter arty and armor hiding in cover. MLRS HE i don't know.
- Arty can be counter with counter battery, aircrafts flanking on the side of the map, or MLRS cluster bombs.
- Depends on your playstyle. (I prefer Light Infantry)
- Not sure what your asking? Quality over quantity, Mig 29 and yak 141 are gr8 for it's price.
- I think it is in team games
Hope this helps

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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby James-Bond » Fri 12 May 2017 00:42

So I haven't replied to this thread, thanks for the for the advise all, I have tried to take in on board.
Been a long time since I posted this as DLC Nation have came out etc.
But turns out Eastern Bloc is now my Favourite Coalition to play as.

so this is my main deck I like to use atm. (Always changing)
It can handle most Strategies/ Suits my play style.
Spoiler : Main Deck :
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Logistics: Not much to say, Wheeled Armoured Amphibious CV, FOB, Supply Helo, Supply Vehicle

Infantry:
Moto '90 + BMP2-/c: Solid Combo for 45pts, Konkurs on can give some hard side shots.
Konkurs-M + VYDRA II: Can punish enemy if they aren't aware/ don't use recon. VYDRA II is a nice cheap autocannon to support.
Komandsi + Skot-2AP: I find very useful for fighting other Infantry, AT is low AP, but can cope with transports.
LstR-40 + SPW-40: personal favourite unit, can cause a lot of havoc
FJB-40 + Mi-24D: Like this combo for 2 reasons, 1) fast air grab, FBJ can be tough enough to hold until back up arrives. 2) Hind
used defensively against infantry pushes.

Support:
All AA is atleast 2800m Helo range (Looking a you Hellfire Missiles)
Strop 2: Wheeled, Non-RADAR 2800m Helo range gun platform. Shreds through transport helo.
Fla-Kom TOR: a Bit short ranged against Plane, but long range for Helo, moves fast, has armour
SFL-Hb 2S19: main reason for this over ONDAVA, is it shots 5 in a volley, ONDAVA shoots 10, means less likely to get countered
when using stacked commands.

Tank:
All Tanks have 4 top Armour, which means Arty isn't as damaging.
I like the T-72 Tanks, I think they are well rounded, except accuracy a bit low when compared to NATO tanks.
T-72M1M: My main Workhorse Tank, The ATGM is a good addition, for facing stronger tanks.
Main reason for so many heavy tanks in the deck is I hate when enemy armour decks stomp everything weaker.

Recon:
I put a lot of emphasis on Recon, Elite Infantry can move fast, and can defend themselves.
The BPzV Snezka is good as it can handle infantry, Helo, and lightly armour vehicles.
Usually Prefer Exceptional Optics on Helo, but it does have a good ATGM.
FORMOZA can be good when paired up with other units, especially if the enemy is Infantry Heavy.

Helo:
Already have enough Transport Hinds with rockets pods.
DHS Mi-24P: Multi-role AA & AT, also AA missiles have better range vs planes than other helo.

Plane:
I usually use my Airforce Defensively.
2 Cards of MiG-29 ASF, can chip away at enemy Airforce.
Napalm/HE Bomber MiG-29, has high ECM, I like this unit.
Su-22M4 Seria 30, The 2x F&F ATGM missiles makes it good at sniping a heavy tank on an attack run.



Some pictures picked up on they way whilst playing as EB
Spoiler : (my post From 'Best kills' Thread) :
T-72M1M (Both tanks in same Game)
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THS Mi-24D (Defensive Hind)
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MiG-29 9-13S (Both MiGs in same game, So many Air units)
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LstR-40 (also sinking a La Fay)
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FJB-40
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Komandosi
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PTRS Konkurs-M (In a town, was able to avoid Arty)
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Spoiler : More pictures :
BPzV Snezka, sneaking up on Arty & Base
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Twardy, Not the heaviest tank but still can cause a lot of hurt
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Fla-Kom TOR, one game where the enemy went air heavy
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SU-22M4 Seria 30, Sniping Heavy Tanks
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Strop-2, Intercepting a helo landing
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BM-27, (I usually don't like cluster as it's too supply intensive)
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BMP-2 I find it a versatile IFV
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I put Konkurs in my deck by accident instead of Konkurs-M, didn't turn out too bad
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Last edited by James-Bond on Thu 18 May 2017 06:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RedFor, Eastern Block, National Decks (+ few other questions)

Postby Adarius » Wed 17 May 2017 09:37

Nice with a (re-)active Eastern Block thread as they are my primary RedFor deck.

Currently I mainly play a East European tank deck but I am considering if I should perhaps move over to a general deck.

Overall I am quite happy with my Armoured deck. The high number of ATGM units make it powerful in the 2300-2800 m range and on shorter combat distances (600-1800 m) it also does well with the abundance of autocannons. It does however lack top end super heavies limiting it in long range tank engagements and I really need to learn how to deal with large forests as maps like Plunjin Valley turns into a death trap if the enemy establishes itself along the forested terrain cutting through the middle.

Despite the lack of top end super heavy tanks I don't mind tank engagements as I got good ATGM support. Mechanized infantry is however very hard to deal with when they form a defensive line in cover. Good air dominance players also tend to get me into trouble as they often use infantry to hold and air to pound me.

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Logistics: The tank HQ or APC HQ will be replaced by jeeps. I included the tank HQ as I often focus on open control zones and figured that the armour of the tank may be worth it but I am not sure on if it truly is worth it. Otherwise straightforward with a small supplies unit and a bigger more expensive unit that makes FOBs unnecessary.

Infantry
Motoschutze 90 are the mainstay of my infantry and can deal with all but elite infantry. For offensive actions I use Motoschutze 90 with a mixture of BMPs for fire support and cheap transports while the standard Motoschutze are to bolster the numbers in meatgrinder engagements. The Motostrelci are pretty much a bonus as it is the BVP-2 fire support vehicles I am after and Konkurs-M is used to hold key cities or provide flanking fire in tank vs tank engagements.

Support

I would like more AA units but this usually work out quite well with Newa/Tor providing defense in high priority areas while the Sopels are spread out to repel helicopters and provide a an air defense net that I do not need to micromanage.

Tanks
I love the Moderna and use it either for short range ambushes or to clear out infantry from small city areas as they almost immediately get stunned. In open terrain I prefer the Twardy or Wilks with support of T-55 Dynas and T-72 M1M. The Twardy is weaker than proper super heavies but a single hit from an ATGM provided by the BVP-2, Dyna or M1M is usually enough to level the field.

Especially the Dyna is a bit of surprise for many enemies as its 2800 m ATGM range puts it in the same range as the best fire support ATGMs but with enough armour to survive a hit. Therefore I tend to be quite aggressive with them to defend flanking positions together with the infantry as even with poor stealth they can go unnoticed before firing ATGMs into the sides of heavy armour or wipe out fire support.

Recon
Quite standard, recon helicopter, recon infantry, recon infantry in helicopter gun ship and then the lovably spammable Grenzer that ends up in every bush on the map. Right now I am experimenting with exceptional optics vehicles which got a bad reputation but I suspect may help me to deal with hidden ATGM squads.

Vehicle
Fire support with high HE and more ATGMs, not sure on if its worth it.

Helicopter
Not much to say here. I am not sure on if its me or the helicopter but I rarely find it performing to my expectations for flanking enemy armour.

Aircraft
In theory I love my air units but in practice I often feel that whenever they do well it is against a weak opponent. The Serla is a life saver for taking out superheavies and the Su-25K often proves itself vital to put an end to potentially game winning enemy pushes that extends a bit to far for their air defense (or the air defense is lost to a Dyna). But I need to become better at managing aircraft and find a good solution to take out enemy infantry concentrations.

Overall I really like this deck but I am especially happy with advice on improved air defenses and how to best deal with large number of infantry in cluttered terrain.

General deck
This is a completely new deck that I have not yet played with. I got all my favourite tank units but at much worse veterancy and in return I get better infantry, better helicopters and slightly improved air defense.

The general ideas is that LSTR, Formoza and the Polish Berets give me superiority in forests/flanking engagements while the Wachtregiment with their submachine guns and 15 HP should be extremely powerful in city fighting. I do however feel that the infantry tab is overly biased towards expensive units and would also like to get some proper artillery into the deck. Infantry in a helicopter gunship is also lacking.
@Ul8CSmtYSVeC4qYGW1NqtawFWpUIx2pQdjUubkCSU8RIEoZIeSJpXpV+SDpXSVKlZpQRUiVlJYqSO0sxKhSm
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