What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Adarius
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What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby Adarius » Mon 20 Mar 2017 16:28

I've been testing different decks and so far been quite successful with the East German MiG-29 as it comes with reasonably idiot proof F&F missiles that can shoot down most aircraft without me being required to keep the aircraft pointed towards the enemy. This has been working reasonably well until ended up face-to-face with a Eurofighter.

I figured that given the superior speed and high real life turn-radius for the Eurofighter my guesstimate was that there would be no point in trying to engage it in a turning battle. Our weapons are equivalent but the Eurofighter got more of them and is also a faster aircraft so my guesstimate was that the best would be if we both lost our aircraft in a head on fight. The net result was however a dead MiG-29 and a very much alive Eurofighter along with people politely* pointing out that it was a bad move on my behalf. There is a small ECM difference (40 vs 50 %) between the aircraft but otherwise it should be a roughly equivalent fight given the missiles available and rapidly diminishing closing distance.

So apparently ASF superiority is hard to estimate from the public stats and I would appreciate advice on.

1) Which ASF units are the best.

2) How do you best try to save your ASF when facing a better one?

*Not sarcastic, it was a very polite game despite me repeatedly being retarded.

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James-Bond
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Re: What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby James-Bond » Tue 21 Mar 2017 06:56

I'm not a plane pro but I have gotten better.
I try to think of my ASF like a Queen in Chess.
I don't like to trade planes in combat as a game where you have no ASF support can be very miserable, especially if the enemy likes doing bomber/ SEAD combo.


Why your plane likely lost
- enemy plane probably elite, so it had better accuracy
- enemy plane had higher ECM, which effect the chances of it being hit.
- so that combo, it was likely your plane got stunned/ morale lowered and unable to fire off annoy accurate missile.

1) Which ASF units are the best.
Su-27Pu or C1 Rafale,
Why? high ECM, possible to take Elite veterency, good turn radius, a lot of missiles.

however don't panic if your Deck is unable to take an of the 50% ECM planes, the 40% planes like the MiG-29 or F-16 are just as capable and can usually be taken 2 per card and at hardened veterancy (missiles only hurt if they hit)

2) How do you best try to save your ASF when facing a better one?
Tactics:
A) Opportunity
Basically you have to time your engagement with the other plane, so you get to fire your missiles first.
If the plane is circling try to time it just as the enemy has just turned away from you, this mean the the enemy plane has to do any loop before it is able to fire back at you (very important vs Interceptors)

B) Baiting
basically a plane is used as a decoy, usually done with a cheap plane (so if destroyed doesn't matter) or SEAD (usually high ECM so can EVAC safely)
so fly your bait plane and your ASF behind it, hopefully the enemy will respond by sending out that better ASF you want destroyed.
In short the Enemy will target the bait plane and you will target the enemy plane.

Note*:
-More effective your planes aren't coming from the exact same direction, enemy may get tunnel vision & may not notice also, it gains your ASF time before the enemy can fire back like in "A) opportunity"
- be aware if the enemy is ignoring the bait plane and targeting your ASF instead.
- Some planes like the MiG-29 only has 2 long range missiles, so your bait plane can force them to use those missiles, making them vunerable to being countered by your long range missiles.

variation: you can try to get the enemy to chase your plane into your Land Air defense

C) Quantity Risk Assessment
so if enemy has one of the 'better' 50% ecm planes, they will likely be: on one card 2x Rookie or 1x Elite
Example:
3x Elite MiG-23ML (100pts each) vs 2x Eurofighter Typhoon (175pts each)
(Head on fight)
It is possible that the Eurofighter could destroy all 3 MiGs, but it will likely lose one Eurofighter aswell.
Would that trade be worth it?
Even just flying out a squadron of planes may force the enemy to evac as they wouldn't want to lose a valuable plane.




------------------------
Notes:
- for my Eastern bloc deck, I'm Enjoying using 2 Cards of MiG-29 (E-Ger & Polish), seem to be doing fine with it.
- Practice, make an CV & plane deck, play against AI on skirmish to test out tactics, and planes etc.
- Interceptors are annoying but not invincible, long time between missile, large turn radius, lower accuracy missile, awareness is key.
- Beware of RNG (Random number generator) one time i was cocky and tried to go head to head combat with a J-8c (100pts) with my eurofighter I lost and the enemy survived. on paper i "should" of won or we both got destroyed.
- Planes with Medium Stealth like MiG-29m, C1 Rafale, KF-16C Block 52D, are good on ambushing planes especially if they don't have exceptional Air detection
- Don't think if a plane isn't an ASF it wont try to shoot you down, one time a Tornado ECR did chase and killed me and so did a Su-25K I didn't expect it :lol:

hope some of this is helpful

Adarius
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Re: What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby Adarius » Wed 22 Mar 2017 13:12

I am still curious about the probabilities of a kill in the head on scenario from each side but yes it definitely help to identify the parameters I need to train on. This was a tactical game so it was probably maximum veterancy on both sides but time will tell if it is bad luck or a routine problem for me.

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Re: What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby Rabidnid » Sat 25 Mar 2017 03:09

You can also combine your ASF with you radar AA missiles. I mostly use the German MiG 21 ASF as it is more available and able to kill a Longbow in a single pass more than half the time. If the enemy has wandered into your AA envelope then they can add to the damage done.
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blackhood1
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Re: What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby blackhood1 » Tue 18 Apr 2017 13:24

I think it depends upon your choice and your brush up on specific plane!
SCHRemedies
Last edited by blackhood1 on Fri 21 Apr 2017 03:13, edited 1 time in total.

urogard
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Re: What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby urogard » Tue 18 Apr 2017 18:07

blackhood1 wrote:I think it depends upon your choice and your brush up on specific plane!

In general, what I would advise to 90% of people playing wargame ...
Barring exceptional circumstances (something like an armored column overrunning your sector close or at spawn with absolutely no AA), every point invested NOT into planes and helos but into ground units will result in a much better bang for your buck in 9 out of 10 games.

Want to bomb an area? 2 arties carry the same cost and will survive a lot longer and probably kill a lot more things a lot more quickly
Having problems with enemy planes? instead of spending 300+ pts on 2 high-end ASFs or 3 mid-range ASFs, get 4 BUKs or Rolands and you'll be shooting down a lot more stuff a lot more often.
Superheavy causing problems? Save up a few more points and bring a high end tank yourself, it's going to be a lot more useful to not just deal with an enemy tank but with attacking and defending in general.

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Re: What aircraft are good for ASF and how do I use them?

Postby Sovereign » Sat 6 May 2017 18:35

I usually bring ASF with 4x amraams or *ammraasmskys. I wait for the enemy to come near the front line then fire off long range missiles then peel off back into friendly AA. Rarely do I get into a dogfight.

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