There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

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Inzunza
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There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby Inzunza » Sat 27 May 2017 05:08

So, here's the story thus far. This is my first post and I have NEVER played a multiplayer game of Wargame: Red Dragon, let alone any games in the franchise. In fact, I haven't even completed any of the campaigns but I have played several skirmishes against the AI. Despite this, I think the game is super interesting and I've had it for a while with all DLC's (still waiting for Cuba, though). Now, I have motivation to play it. Rather, I have to. There is this different website called NationStates where you can make your own little nation and interact with other people's nations. My nation is heavily inspired by Cuba (there it is again), being called the Republic of Inzunza (which is what I've selected for my name on these forums, if you haven't noticed). Another nation (Empire of Puerto Rico) will be waging war with my own nation. For those who don't know, NationStates doesn't have a way to simulate warfare, so we're using a third party system.

Lo and behold, that third party system is Wargame: Red Dragon.

The rules are I can only pick one nation to play as and I'm encouraged to pick the faction that best represents my nation. That faction is East Germany as they're reliant on USSR technology and had relatively close ties with Cuba. They weren't my first choice or even my second (first choice was Czechoslovakia but they didn't have the BTR-152 which is actually an important part of my nation's own lore, so I damned my self on that one. Second was North Korea because of the flag and despite having the BTR-152, they didn't have enough Soviet Tech for my nation's lore). However, after working out SEVERAL decks, I've finally decided on this:

Spoiler : :
@QMkKWptVpympNTyVIp6EFH7CCj9hBR+xV4/Iq8fkEOeqCHPUVdhNJEgR8FVzRkkEJBBSmREo4hWYkjlXiV6hREUxFMlbJWyEYx5seaHih4kDJAyh1I4yOSjmAA==


Edit: I've recently changed one of the naval units from a command ship to more infantry to land with. The new deck is:

Spoiler : The New Deck :
Here

@QMkSSnpVpymptVpympNTyVIp6EFH7CCj9hBR+xV4/Iq8fkEOeqCHPUVdhNJEgR8FVzRkkEJBBSmREo4hWYkjlXiV6hREUxFMlbJWyEYx5seaHih4kDJAyh1I4yOY


Also, I've decided to share the open sea deck:

Spoiler : The Open Sea Deck :
And here

@Us0AAltG/Rv0cZHGByQclHFRzA==



I'd appreciate if someone could test run this for me, give me some tips, tell me what I don't need, or just generally help me out. I have 30 days before the war officially starts and this time is granted to prepare one's self to make the war a bit more balanced. I'm assuming that my opponent will choose the United States but I could be wrong. The primary goal for my deck is for 1v1, needs to be effective on most maps, amphibious vehicles should generally have priority to reflect the Caribbean but can theoretically be left off the deck, and the deck has to reflect my nation's history (Soviet Equipment with BTR-152's. Long story as to why they're important). The game type is total destruction with an hour limit. However, if the defending nation isn't pushed off the map then it's considered a stalemate. Multiple games are to be played to simulate a war with the defender to choose the map to assume familiarity with the territory. The first battle is a naval battle because it's in the Caribbean. I'll have to post what I'll assume is a sufficient deck, but that'll be for another time. I'll also have to figure out how to mod DDR units to remove their Roundel and replace it with my own (only for vanity's sake) but that's for another time as well.

For now, anything would be helpful right now. Thank you for your time.
¡No Pasarán!

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James-Bond
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Re: There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby James-Bond » Mon 29 May 2017 08:11

Correct me is I'm misunderstanding anything, hope some of this info is useful.
It's 1v1, any idea the game rules, like income rate, Game mode or Map?
Hope you will enjoy playing Wargame: Red Dragon

Did a few edit on the Original deck & I tried to keep within the theme I think.
-------------
Logistics: you have 3 Cards of Command Units, reduced it to 2, replaced a card with a supply Helicopter.

Infantry: Swapped to the Cards of the basic Mot. Sch with PanzerJager & Napalm Launcher
also note that in that tab there is 50 vehicles with Elite/ Veteran ATGM. (200 missiles!)

Support: Swapped the cheap artillery for Mortars instead as they are more accurate.

Tank: Swapped the T-55 w/ATGM, for A T-72M, has bit better Armour.

Recon: Deck had no infantry recon which seemed odd, Grenzer come in that BTR vehicle, added infantry w/ Hind, & heli recon.

Vehicle: Remove ATGM vehicles as you already have a load of them in the Infantry tab, added Flame Tank, also the 2nd card of BTR since you like it?

Helo: No changes

Plane: Swapped SEAD plane for the ATGM Plane.

Naval: If you are using Ships, you need supplies, Redfor ASM missiles are very good. Used the Reserve Card for duel purpose, you get a lot of landing craft (32), you have enough if you want to load a landing force instead of reserves. Removed the MRLS Boat.
Added a single ASM Plane, duel purpose of Air support & sinking ships.
--------------------

Spoiler : Deck :
Original
e.jpg
e.jpg (385.33 KiB) Viewed 721 times


>>>My Edit<<<
Deck Code:
@QMkLAOgeBympNTyVIp6CHPVBDnqQnz1FNpuUONTyHIPyKvH7FXj8hBR+gSQTSrsJpKrkghIIIiSsxJHKvEr0imIpkrZK2QjEcZHMIkSeQn+I8Sb1pbIpUIxCPiUmjIA=
d.jpg
d.jpg (385.14 KiB) Viewed 721 times

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Inzunza
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Re: There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby Inzunza » Mon 29 May 2017 18:06

James-Bond wrote:Correct me is I'm misunderstanding anything, hope some of this info is useful.
It's 1v1, any idea the game rules, like income rate, Game mode or Map?
Hope you will enjoy playing Wargame: Red Dragon

Did a few edit on the Original deck & I tried to keep within the theme I think.


Thank you for your investment of time. The maps are chosen by the defending nation. Allow me to show you what was described:
Spoiler : :
We’re not just simulating battles, we’re simulating a war. To reflect this, one match isn’t enough to ensure victory. Several victories must be had. Think of it like this:

[_]-[_]-[_]-[X]-[_]-[_]-[_]-[_]-[_]

Each of these boxes represent battles in regions that are required for victory. The “X” starts in the middle where neither side is winning nor losing. Of course, it is skewed to the left to reflect the population advantage Puerto Rico has over Inzunza. As Inzunza is a small single island facing Puerto Rico whose own lore states they control Cuba, Haiti, and the Dominican republic, it is far harder for Inzunza to completely take over and would thus require more victories. Assume that the first victory goes to Puerto Rico:

[_]-[_]-[X]-[_]-[_]-[_]-[_]-[_]-[_]

The X moves closer towards Inzunza. A battle is fought in the new region and the previous victor is now the attacker. The first battle, however, is neutral and there is no attacker nor defender. Now, there is a defender (being Inzunza) and an attacker (being Puerto Rico). If Puerto Rico wins, the X moves to the next region but if they lose the X returns to the previous region. If the game ends in a draw, there is no victor and the battle for the region continues; same map is used. After a string of victories, the X will reach the last box. Once the X reaches the last box, it becomes a fight for the capital city and defeat means the war is over and the capital city is captured. As a reminder, a nation may offer their surrender at any time but once their capital is captured, they may not offer any terms and surrender unconditionally.


The first map will be the open waters naval map with no island, but if it returns to that point, the defending player will probably choose a map with islands to represent archipelagos in the region. Assume rules are total destruction with 1k points and medium income rate with an hour. Very attrition based. That being said, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you several questions about the changes so I can better understand what I should truly consider while deck building.

James-Bond wrote:Logistics: you have 3 Cards of Command Units, reduced it to 2, replaced a card with a supply Helicopter.


Honestly, I was on the fence about 3 Command Units but I hadn't consider replacing it with a supply helicopter. I figure the benefits are hastened resupply as well as resupply over water, but is it standard to bring them and the trucks?

James-Bond wrote:Infantry: Swapped to the Cards of the basic Mot. Sch with PanzerJager & Napalm Launcher
also note that in that tab there is 50 vehicles with Elite/ Veteran ATGM. (200 missiles!)


I'm not sure I understand the point of Panzerjaeger while the Konkurs is available. I'm sure it's wise to bring them but I feel their role is negatable as a whole.

James-Bond wrote:Support: Swapped the cheap artillery for Mortars instead as they are more accurate.


I was VERY uncertain about mortars. I had considered their role as

James-Bond wrote:Tank: Swapped the T-55 w/ATGM, for A T-72M, has bit better Armour.


So is armor more important than attack?

James-Bond wrote:Recon: Deck had no infantry recon which seemed odd, Grenzer come in that BTR vehicle, added infantry w/ Hind, & heli recon.


Lol, believe it or not I had recon infantry in the original iteration. I thought it'd be better to focus on the exceptional optic'd armor and I read somewhere that a spam of the BTR-40 is an efficient spam.

James-Bond wrote:Vehicle: Remove ATGM vehicles as you already have a load of them in the Infantry tab, added Flame Tank, also the 2nd card of BTR since you like it?


Lol, the BTR only needs to make an appearance to represent my nation's history. Without delving into my nation's lore too much, just know that Inzunza is a peaceful nation and hadn't really worried too much about the threat of war. Thus, the BTR was immensely popular because of it's similarities to civilian street cars and could maintain the peace extremely well. Ironically, there was little concern for battlefield appliance because until now, there were no national enemies of the state. A single card would be enough to represent this fact.

That being said, Why can't I keep the ATGM vehicles? Maybe one card of them + BTR + fire tank? Or if the infantry tab really is enough, perhaps two fire tanks?

James-Bond wrote:Plane: Swapped SEAD plane for the ATGM Plane.


Out of all the changes you've made, I'm actually a little sad about this one. Last night, I took the time to test my deck out on medium bots and found the SEAD plane interesting to use. I'll be fine replacing it with an ATGM, though.

James-Bond wrote:Naval: If you are using Ships, you need supplies, Redfor ASM missiles are very good. Used the Reserve Card for duel purpose, you get a lot of landing craft (32), you have enough if you want to load a landing force instead of reserves. Removed the MRLS Boat.
Added a single ASM Plane, duel purpose of Air support & sinking ships.


As I said, I tested out the deck last night and I noticed a hard time with supplies. If the MRLS boat isn't any good, I'll be open to replacing it (maybe it's so bad... it SHMELS!!! Eh? Eh?!). However, the reserves come in on BTR's, which aren't amphibious. Do they land on something else?

Anyways, thanks again for the help. I really appreciate this.
¡No Pasarán!

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Re: There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby James-Bond » Tue 30 May 2017 01:30

Sounds pretty cool set up.

Honestly, I was on the fence about 3 Command Units but I hadn't consider replacing it with a supply helicopter. I figure the benefits are hastened resupply as well as resupply over water, but is it standard to bring them and the trucks?


Makes a Logistical Supply Chain Easier.
Helicopter can Resupply from the FOB, the Trucks can Resupply from the Helicopter, Units can Resupply from the Trucks.
Also Helicopter can Resupply Units on Islands, without loading a truck onto a Landing craft.
Supply.jpg
Supply.jpg (116.87 KiB) Viewed 689 times


I'm not sure I understand the point of Panzerjaeger while the Konkurs is available. I'm sure it's wise to bring them but I feel their role is negatable as a whole.

- Konkurs are for Long Range in places with good Line of Sight
- Panzerjaeger, will most likely be in the Forest, They can also use there RPG to target infantry which is very good at suppressing them.
Note if you combine units can make life very difficult for the enemy.
Example the Napalm Launcher Infantry + Panzerjaeger can be an effective combo for a cheap price.

So is armor more important than attack?

It's complex, East German units Lack any Very Heavy Armour so IMO, the tank tab in this case should prioritize on Armour so you don't get crushed easily.

I was VERY uncertain about mortars. I had considered their role as

Also Think mortars have a very short aim time, while the other arty is pretty long 30s? to aim before firing
you'd have to use both ingame to test out which you'd prefer, but I'm a fan of Mortars
Very useful for supporting infantry attacks.
Just make sure you move them after firing so you don't get hit by counter arty.
using "Shift+ Click" you can stack commands, so you shouldn't get countered.

Lol, the BTR only needs to make an appearance to represent my nation's history. Without delving into my nation's lore too much, just know that Inzunza is a peaceful nation and hadn't really worried too much about the threat of war. Thus, the BTR was immensely popular because of it's similarities to civilian street cars and could maintain the peace extremely well. Ironically, there was little concern for battlefield appliance because until now, there were no national enemies of the state. A single card would be enough to represent this fact.

That being said, Why can't I keep the ATGM vehicles? Maybe one card of them + BTR + fire tank? Or if the infantry tab really is enough, perhaps two fire tanks?

No it's fine, haha

Out of all the changes you've made, I'm actually a little sad about this one. Last night, I took the time to test my deck out on medium bots and found the SEAD plane interesting to use. I'll be fine replacing it with an ATGM, though.

Well I'd swap out the MiG-21 instead, some people like them as they can aggressive attack helicopters with them.
Flying SEAD & ATGM as same time, can be good tactic, just make sure you Fighter planes support them, as the both the SEAD & ATGM plane have bad air detection so you wouldn't be able to EVAC before it's too late.

As I said, I tested out the deck last night and I noticed a hard time with supplies. If the MRLS boat isn't any good, I'll be open to replacing it (maybe it's so bad... it SHMELS!!! Eh? Eh?!). However, the reserves come in on BTR's, which aren't amphibious. Do they land on something else?

Anyways, thanks again for the help. I really appreciate this.

hahah very punny.
When you have something non-amphibious loaded onto a landing craft is has to to be upclose to the shore, before it can offload.
>>Note<< you can load any Land unit into a landing craft.

____________

I did a change to the Naval tab,
1x Sovremenniy
1x Udaloy
3x Muna
2x Su-27k
8x LstR in APC in landing craft.
___________

Not sure how much focus on each aspect ie, Boat/ landcraft or Plane heavy.
It's a heavy investment but it can reap rewards if you look after it well
having both ships at the same time are very tough to deal with for the enemy.
Make sure they are kept resupplied, so you can keep launching those deadly ASM missiles.
Su-27k is very good plane.
for landing craft, depends if you want unit of you want the landing craft itself.

If your looking for a good unit, LstR can prove pretty neat if you can sneakily land them in an unguarded coast, then let them cause havoc when they get behind enemy lines. But you only get 8 of these.

Or you could got down the route of picking the Reservists as you get 32 landing craft.
one time i did coastal landing where had 11 landing craft,
(3x Reservists, 2x Heavy Tanks, 2x AA , 1x Recon inf, 1x Recon Vehicle, 2x SF Infantry.)
the 3x Reservist were to check what was on the coast / if bomber attack it wasn't a major loss.

Some quick Naval Tips.
- Have you ship launch their ASM missiles at the same time.
- If ASM Planes are flying at you turn your boat to face them.
- Have the boats close to each other so their CIWS, can both can help destory ASM missiles.
- Have your fighter planes patrol to help defend from ASM plane attack.
- don't bring your ship right up to the coast, why would you let a tank hit your ship when you can easily out range them.

(This was online)
Spoiler : Picture :
navy.png
navy.png (821.93 KiB) Viewed 689 times


Deck Revision:
@QMkLGptVpyim03IEkE1jjHu1JqeapFPMcg/Iq8fkIKP2KvH7BDnqghz1IT56kghIIJ/irsJpKriJEnkIGSKUimIpirYq2IiSrwq9QjEI9jzKU4lIrMSRyb0JbRxUcwA=


Final Note:
If you want to test stuff out, on purposely make a bad deck for the computer to use, so on purpose leave out certain aspects.
Can you handle Tank spam? make a deck with only Tanks & CV.

you said their is a possbility that you oppnent may be using USA.

well here is a US deck I would use ( I enjoy playing commonwealth as BluFor)
@AM8B2GpM5ZKUlMkHMWgFJLJjAI4ip0cRB5bGSHErZHCGLlNJEsSiknpJ2SdEnhMISolpsWalppYEXQUpRZwXSWqFhZR8keEnAA==

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Re: There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby Inzunza » Mon 19 Jun 2017 09:10

Thanks again, James. Time for an update thus far:

My opponent disappeared overnight, so I'll probably be facing someone else soon. Which is fine, more time for me. I've taken your builds and made a spectator build where I'm just running around with a command jeep. Of course, to ensure the other side didn't have an advantage, I'd give them a command jeep spectator too.

As it turned out, your builds happened to BEAT THE CRAP out of decks I built. Consistently, too. I'm not sure if that means anything, but it's been making me rethink my strategy and I may rebuild a deck without a focus. However, I'm not too concerned and I think I'd fair well with my current deck anyways (thanks to you, of course :D).
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Re: There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby James-Bond » Wed 21 Jun 2017 04:30

Don't worry, that US is pretty tough when used by AI
it has a lot of heavy armour armour long range ATGM from the Apache Helicopters.
(I think the AI cheats [it spams more units that it shouldn't be able to afford.])
When I play Nation Only I like to play as East-Germany, however Heavy Armour deck are annoying to play again though.

Here is the East German deck I use. (sometimes I swap in the Cluster Arty, but rarely)
@QM8CEJ89SE+PtqXH21NqtYhz1JUg+0q9VrVeP0j5CaSf4lCKvCr0iJKoChRLFSRysyJSCIyb1K5SuSrYq2IpiI9HFRzCJoiOCW4lMA==

Some Tips, which may help with this deck.
-Use a lot of recon, Hopefully limit any surprises, & helps you plan.
-The Sniper Team, Turn Weapons of let them run around the map, the have exceptional stealth
- If you have to attack Heavy enemy Armour & can't use your planes safely, try and stun them with Arty just before you attack. Hopefully there lower accuracy & Rate of fire means you should be hit less times before you destroy them
- I use the Airforce very defensively.
- The SEAD plane can be useful to highlight where enemy RADAR AA is (with Radar turned on) , just do a pass pull back toward your units & evac. Sometime you loss SEAD planes looking for units to kill when you feel a bit greedy.


If you get a hang of Hot Keys it can make you life much easier
viewtopic.php?f=189&t=56595

Shift + Command, Stacks commands, example would be move units then unload, or telling a path for a unit to travel.
Ctrl + [0-9], make a control group so when press a number those units are selected, I usually have Artillery + Radar AA assigned to Numbers

Also when it's 'national Only', guessing Coalitions aren't allowed in your rules?

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Re: There's a Catch (DDR Advice)

Postby Inzunza » Thu 22 Jun 2017 02:57

Coalitions are only allowed if more than 2 players are involved. These rules are new, though, so they might be changed later on.

Edit: So, the fighting begins today and they chose Sweden. I'm feeling a bit more confident.
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