REQ: Infantry Squad system

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Sandy
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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby Sandy » Sat 16 May 2015 07:08

Cryotech wrote:It would definitely help quite a bit. I find it difficult to manage "squads" of infantry, especially if they're different types. Your suggestion would definitely alleviate this problem. However, I feel this might be a bit difficult to implement on their end, so I have doubts as to whether or not we'll see this.

I'd totally like to see it, though.


Agreed, the feature will definitely help alleviate this issue. Although I wouldn’t worry about difficulty, since we have some true genius devs at Eugen. They even added collision system for infantries, so no more soldiers walking through buildings like ghosts, woohoo!!!

That’s my main gripe with the previous IRISZOOM games, like Wargame. They finally added proper collision model for all the units in AoA, a great one too! Although infantries can’t be ran over by vehicles, they can still push and shove tanks! The physics is great in this one, funny to see it when testing out with a friend today haha.

This itself is an incredible feat, I wasn’t even sure if it’s possible before testing out the beta. I mean we have game companies much larger in size and budget (Creative Assembly) that are still unable to implement proper collision for their games (Total War), and those are supposed to be melee-based strategy game where units colliding actually matters!

So I was really pleasantly surprised today (Thank you Eugen!), that’s a very noble and marvelous thing that the devs have done. Anyway yeah I wouldn’t worry about difficulty being a main factor. Especially when the IRISZOOM engine itself is made for squad infantry system in the first place (R.U.S.E).
Last edited by Sandy on Sat 16 May 2015 09:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandy
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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby Sandy » Sat 16 May 2015 07:09

[EUG]MadMat wrote:It won't happen, the transport system being based on single soldiers (with the few exception of 2-men team).

Besides, once again, this is not Wargame.


I think he misunderstood with regard to the premade squad, no that’s not the same as custom made squad system. The transport and garrison system won’t even be affected at all with the new player-made squads.

A “locked” squad of 6 marines still takes up 6 vehicle/building slots as before, the interface doesn’t even need to change for this. Just the whole grouped squad can now be easily mounted and dismounted with the simple click of a mouse button.

And if the storage capacity is smaller than the grouped squad size, just have it so that the squad can’t be mounted inside at all. Similar to how if there’s only 1 slot left for a transport vehicle, a Mortar team won’t be able to move inside. You need at least two slots for them to be able to.

This player created custom squad system works the same way. However it would be possible for players to quickly “unlock” their squad, reform it and then “lock” it up again, (which is a breeze to do) in order to cut the squad size down to smaller slot level. So a larger squad is able to be quickly remade to fit into a small Humvee.

So please Matt, let it happen! This really is a great system which both sides can get along with from that heated discussion a few weeks ago, a fine compromise for us all. Those who prefer squad system are able to customize their own ones at will. While those who prefer individual infantry system are still able to play with their single soldiers, exactly the same as before.

Overall this is a system which will greatly improve the gameplay and reduce unnecessary micro for those who desires it.
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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby HarryD » Sat 16 May 2015 12:14

It's an idea of pure greatness we have there!! I totally upvote the idea!
Yes, it's quite reminiscent to the ctrl+number binding system. However, these dynamic squads will move together in formation and their quantity won't be limited by only 10 numbers we have
Furthermore I consider that Buratino must lose it's NPLM trait.

HarryD in Steam and Wargame RD

Previously known as Wore on the forums

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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby molock'grim » Sat 16 May 2015 12:36

+1 to an optional squad system as described above!!

Don't want to lost my last marines anymore because i can't click on disembark fast enough... :)
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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby TG92929 » Sat 16 May 2015 21:11

I think Sandy's suggestion is quite nice. You can either create a 4 men fire team or a 13 men full marine squad as you see fit.
However, if this system is to be implemented, they would need more infantry units in barracks to make it work well.
Here are some ideas of additional infantry.

SMAW marine, provides shorter range explosive firepower. They are not as good as Javelin when fighting tanks, but, like that fire support teams from Wargame RD, they are good against fortified positions (or perhaps M202 flash marine works better? :twisted: )

Automatic Riflemen (either from barracks or upgraded from individual marines, like the TUSK Abrams). Like I said before, it hurts to see every marine and his dog toting M249.

Grenadier: either produced in barracks or upgraded from individual marines. They can either use underbarrel grenade launchers or the MGL.

Combat life saver. I know this unit already exist in Cartel forces, but it might be good to introduce it to US troops since the only other way to heal the men is that helicopter.
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AMRAAMS FOR THE AMRAAMS GOD, FLANKERS TO THE FLANKER THRONE, LET THE SKY... BURN! :twisted:

Tropico79
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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby Tropico79 » Sun 17 May 2015 06:03

+1 too! Really excellent idea!!

I absolutely HATE managing single individual soldiers, too much managing and looks stupid for real wars.

Really need this optional custom create squad system implemented!

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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby Kvantovy » Sun 17 May 2015 09:38

I fully support the ideas of topic author and Sandy. I especially like the idea of setting the squad members in barracks and then building them with one click. It would not only go along the "Less micro, more macro" theme, but it's far more natural for a game in which you play as a commander responsible for all matters to deal with infantry squads than with every single private.
If you say you are definitely not going to adjust the transporters for squads, then consider Sandy's idea. Squad of 5 soldiers would still take 5 seats and if it's too big it wont be able to enter the vehicle anyway.

OR the squad could be divided in such situation in following manner:
You want a squad composed of 6 soldiers to enter the humvee (4 seats). First four of them enters the vehicle and when they leave they are a four-man squad. The excessive 2 soldiers are set to a two-man squad in the moment when their four friends board the trasporter. Then you can just merge them with another two soldiers and you have another 4 soldier squad ready to go.


You know that some may say it's misleading when you advertise AoA as the game more streamlined than Wargame and made for casual players, but at the same time you put there infantry mechanics and resource storing mechanics that are actually more complicated and less casual-friendly?

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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby GreenBiscuit » Sun 17 May 2015 12:01

agree with sandy idea as well, extremely well said, please have this in eugene!!! :!:

current transport system just too painfully wonky and unmanagable with single soldier
i like to create 1 squad per striker for easier manage please :P

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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby gatonegroo » Sun 17 May 2015 12:38

and it could be great that there would be the posibility of make formations

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Re: REQ: Infantry Squad system

Postby Thomas191 » Sun 17 May 2015 13:18

Sandy wrote:Yeah totally agree with the OP, it’s really a fantastic idea!

For those who don’t understand what the OP meant, what he’s saying is a system where the players can manually form infantry squads by “locking” a few soldiers together, creating a custom made squad. So when one of the members within is clicked on, the whole custom squad is selected. They will move together as a single entity and also fight together as a single entity, with great cohesion.

Such as how it’s done in the original Blitzkrieg game:
http://www.gog.com/game/blitzkrieg_anthology

So for example the player can group 4 Marines together to form a standard fireteam. Or grouping 2 Javelins and 2 Stingers together to form a heavy weapons team. Or even grouping 3 Deltas and 1 Sniper together to form a special operations team etc.

The possibilities are limitless since the players have control in creating the sort of infantry squads they want to handle different type of situations. They can also “unlock” the formed squad at will, whether it’s to dissolve it or to re-form a new one. This can be done by adding a new option in the bottom right orders panel.

There are tons of advantages to this system, such as the ease of transportation which the OP mentioned. The squad size can be manually adjusted for different carrying capacities easily, whether it’s for a Humvee (4), a Stryker (8), or an Osprey (12).

The amount micromanagement is greatly reduced this way, not only with the tediousness of mounting/dismounting transport, and also garrisoning/ungarrisoning buildings. But for other factors as well, some people are already complaining about the economic system being too overwhelming.

It would be better to offset some of these frustration by having an improved and more streamlined unit selection/combat management system, to reduce the amount of unnecessary micromanagement. And thus greatly improving gameplay, since Act of Aggression is stated to be built with macro in mind for the players.

For those of you who are against the squad system in video games, please understand that this feature does not affect your normal gameplay and style in any way. Since it is entirely OPTIONAL! You can choose to use this system or just ignore it completely and nothing will happen.

So please, instead of confusing it with Ctrl hotkey groupings, suppressing infantries altogether, or to go play Company of Heroes. Think for a moment, re-read the OP’s post and understand everything will still play out completely the same for you with your single infantries. Thank you!


Wow! Finally someone who have also played the original blitzkrieg games, you are surely old school ha :lol:
In my opinion blitzkrieg 1 is much better than that sequel, don't really like it for some reason as I think it
lost some of its charms, but its still heaps better than the company of heroes "crap" kids now a days play.
(excuse my language, don't mean to offense) :mrgreen:

but on topic, I fully agree with what your saying, it would be an essential feature that would improve the
game by miles for me! I just CANNOT STAND the amount of intense clicking and micro the game currently have,
it's really a deal breaker for me, so I won't be buying this game if it continue to be like this.

Things like this must be changed for the better, if it makes unit selection that much better, then why not have it?
So I 100% support your idea on the custom squad idea. And also agree with gatonegroo, some sort of formation
would be great, sucks seeing infantries standing in rectangular 19th century line infantry formation fighting.
This is MODERN WARFARE ffs! Won't be touching the game again after the beta if these are not changed.

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