Cartel Late game and POWs

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Selkares
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Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby Selkares » Fri 21 Aug 2015 23:58

One thing that bothers me with Cartel is their late game economy.
They are too reliant on POWs.

US can build infinite number of admin buildings while Chimera has its income outpost. Those, of course, added to POWs
Cartel on the other hand relies only on POWs to generate $.

This is much too reliant on random POW generation and on how the game evolves.
When I play Cartel I find you have to harass and attack the enemy constantly, because once they arrive at Abrams/Terminators it gets tougher. This means most of the POWs you'll have are mostly on the enemies side of the map.
That, added to the fact that bad luck can generate very little of them, can mean a Cartel player may have very little POWs reaching the late game, and thus nearly game over.

Cartel could have a a small POW boost, where each enemy kill grants them 1 POW minimum.

And all this is just considering the basic oil needs.
Most units also require Aluminum, meaning Cartel players must sacrifice POW income for Aluminum where Chimera players have easy to build oil and Alu generators and USA can live with oil-only units.

A RE generator doesn't balance this out as it virtually only gives you access to the more than mediocre LOSAT...

I don't claim to have any solution here, but just pointing something out and checking if others feel the same?

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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby noodlesocks » Sat 22 Aug 2015 00:23

It's always a good idea to have a fast transport vehicle with some troops to "mop up" after a battle. In later games, people tend to forget about their pilots and you'll often find a lot of them just sitting around the map.

That being said, however, the lack of a non lethal tactics upgrade like the US and Chimera have makes it a complete luckshot on how often you find them. Would be nice to see a similar upgrade... Perhaps Psy Ops could generate prisoners on a successful vehicle capture?
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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby C&CIsDead » Sat 22 Aug 2015 02:14

I agree. cartel eco is quite bad. maybe even make the pows to generate both oil and alum with upgrade that double the income(40 oil and alum at the same time!).
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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby Rushattack » Sat 22 Aug 2015 02:59

Or maybe a medium tank that cost rare resource.

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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby fujix » Sat 22 Aug 2015 04:34

Cartel could use a buff for their late game eco.
PoW are RNG. So if you are unlucky you are fucked. You also need to build several barracks, and upgrade them to hold prisoners. Cost adds up fast.
Biggest problem tho is that even if prisoners do drop, its not always you have the possibility to get to them. A battle can take place in the enemies territory and by the time your transport with Contractor arrives, the area might be full of enemy units.
The third problem is that the only unit that requires only rare earth is the Losat. That unit kinda sucks tbh.
Cartel needs something else that only requires rare earth.

I think Cartel needs a PoW drop research like USA and Chimera has. If the devs dont want to add another icon this late, might it be possible that the prison upgrade also increases the chance of POW appearing? I mean Cartel are so dependent on prisoners so giving the prison upgrade that buff is not to OP imo...

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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby pandastick » Sat 22 Aug 2015 05:09

They need some unit that can fight against US abrams and stryker with tusk and chimera terminator, after the patch spectre and otto is useless.

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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby Holy_crap » Sat 22 Aug 2015 05:12

I'd like to see the LOSAT get better range and ROF so that it can be used decently. Right now it's just painfully useless.
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chykka
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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby chykka » Sat 22 Aug 2015 07:48

Well viper helps, I do agree with you guys that Cartel does hurt late game interms of late game sustainability or maintaining a sizable force. But what we do get with cartel has a super weapon that, once paired with blak market it can be fired relentlessly if you have enough markets. although, the thor is expensive to build, the ammo for the cannon is only rare earth. So while when we try to nuke someone as USA we gotta give up two Abrams and one pow pretty much. But Deep mining is my favorite logistical upgrade, wait to long and you kinda wasting potential resource.

Cartel can expand without barriers though, most expensive refines. I wanna figure out which one really is able to collect faster. Chimera seems worst off but maybe not so bad with force projection.
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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby Salsifi » Sat 22 Aug 2015 08:47

Selkares wrote:One thing that bothers me with Cartel is their late game economy.
They are too reliant on POWs.

US can build infinite number of admin buildings while Chimera has its income outpost. Those, of course, added to POWs
Cartel on the other hand relies only on POWs to generate $.

This is much too reliant on random POW generation and on how the game evolves.
When I play Cartel I find you have to harass and attack the enemy constantly, because once they arrive at Abrams/Terminators it gets tougher. This means most of the POWs you'll have are mostly on the enemies side of the map.
That, added to the fact that bad luck can generate very little of them, can mean a Cartel player may have very little POWs reaching the late game, and thus nearly game over.

Cartel could have a a small POW boost, where each enemy kill grants them 1 POW minimum.

And all this is just considering the basic oil needs.
Most units also require Aluminum, meaning Cartel players must sacrifice POW income for Aluminum where Chimera players have easy to build oil and Alu generators and USA can live with oil-only units.

A RE generator doesn't balance this out as it virtually only gives you access to the more than mediocre LOSAT...

I don't claim to have any solution here, but just pointing something out and checking if others feel the same?


I thought most of your games were finished before half an hour :lol:

You should not run out of resources during a short time like that.

Kidding aside, there are two things to do :
- the first is to reward player when he uses the stealth units by adding a high pow generation bonus when he kills an enemy units which was stealth -> Cartel hard to master thing :D
- the second thing is to replace the actual mechanism of five prisoners for alu to a more flexible solution with a switch button which gives the player the choice to change the generation to oil or alu and suppress the definitive choice.
-> Cartel has the hand on the economic world, they have the flexibility to have this advantage on enemies :roll:

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Selkares
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Re: Cartel Late game and POWs

Postby Selkares » Sat 22 Aug 2015 09:20

Salsifi wrote:I thought most of your games were finished before half an hour :lol:

You should not run out of resources during a short time like that.

I do play different type of games, there a big differences between 1v1s, 4v4s and 2v2v2v2 ;)

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