Chimera early game needs work

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Rushattack
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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby Rushattack » Sun 23 Aug 2015 06:53

Azreal wrote:Since the crusher upgrade nerf and the introduction of cartel, chimera are extremely weak early game.

The SAS are great, but they are dependent on buildings as on open ground they are cannon fodder. The combination of cost for the veichal bay, cost/build time of the puma and the general strength of them, means its just not cost effective at the start of a game.

Example of this is a US rush with 3 recon units on a small map gives you very little chance to have anything viable to defend against it. Or a cartel rush with oto's, that can simply drive past your garrisoned snipers.

The 1st issue here is that in order to get the crusher upgrade you now need alu. So in order to do this you have to pay for an alu refinery wait for build time, wait for 1st crusher to drop off and then pay for and wait for the upgrade, all this comes at the cost of early resources that would be beter off spent on oil thats needed for early chimera units and buildings.

The 2nd issue is perhaps one to do with maps where there arent sufficiently located buildings to place SAS inside your starting location so as not to allow an early rush to simply drive around or simply straight past your SAS. This would however come at the cost of your enemy being able to garrison units inside your base. Possibly giving chimera a bunker/foxhole that can be placed in the same way as a turret but 1 or 2 SAS can garrison inside may solve this problem. Think terran in starcraft 2 where they have bunkers that can be placed at set locations for defence.

Imo, I think that early rushes and harassment should be part of this game, but there needs to be a fair chance to stop and counter these acts of aggression, which i feel as a Chimera player with 250+ hours playing mainly this faction it doesnt currently have.


Chimera early game is great. Play with me and Ill show you how you can make your opponents look like fools. They don't need any work. You just need a new strategy.

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Rushattack
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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby Rushattack » Sun 23 Aug 2015 06:54

oompah wrote:+1

I play only chimera and all comments made by the OP are accurate, bunkers would be a very appropriate addition to this side


You are so wrong. IF you got good chimera tactics you can crush cartel. My name is ChimeraPower look for me in game and ill show you some technics.

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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby XVroomFondelX » Sun 23 Aug 2015 07:07

Rushattack wrote:
oompah wrote:+1

I play only chimera and all comments made by the OP are accurate, bunkers would be a very appropriate addition to this side


You are so wrong. IF you got good chimera tactics you can crush cartel. My name is ChimeraPower look for me in game and ill show you some technics.


Man if u so good please post here or on gamereplays.com your replay pack with your technics for education, it would be better than search u in game.

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KampfKeksKrieger
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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby KampfKeksKrieger » Sun 23 Aug 2015 10:02

Azreal wrote:Since the crusher upgrade nerf and the introduction of cartel, chimera are extremely weak early game.
Example of this is a US rush with 3 recon units on a small map gives you very little chance to have anything viable to defend against it. Or a cartel rush with oto's, that can simply drive past your garrisoned snipers.


If you build only 1 Barracks, I give you right.
If you build 3 Barracks at start, you can produce 3 snipers to spawn at the same time which can do something.
I want to introduce this strategy a little deeper. Its not in my guide yet, as I dont consider it as "absolute solutions". It also does not work on all maps.

Spoiler : :
I build 18 Felins out of 3 barracks right at start and conquer the banks instead of building refineries.
That makes my economy (totally) independend of getting Base rushed. The 3 Recon Teams just drive around and cannot do anything while my Felins Walk untouched to the bank and I have more income than my US-Oppoonent as his 3 Recon Teams spoiled his economy.
---
Independent from that, Chimera has the BEST Chances of all 3 Factions to capure ALL 3 BANKS right from start, which I ALWAYS do!
I produce 18 Felins with 3 Barracks (ignoring the refineries totally) and even 3 Recon Teams cannot kill them all, I never loose more than 1 or 2 as the one Recon Team-humvee does not have enough firepower to kill them until you reached the banks. If the Recon Team is aggressive you just walk unto the next buildings and go on if the Recon leaves to kill the other Felins but those already reached the next cliff or the bank already or at least also some buildings to switch-move through the buildings (rally point click to the next building and unload hotkey).
Thiswise you have a Rush-resistent early economy and in contrary to the normal "2 refineries - one barracks"-build, I also WIN my games!
---
I also want to mention that AoA is not the game where you can just overwrite the faction to use the same build and strategy careless of which you choose! (Like you did in Generals maybe where you had about the same results with the same build independend of the factions characteristics)

AoA is not that Build-Opening-Independend. You have to adapt and need different approaches for evey single of them.
If you want the standart 1 Barracks, 1 Warfactory, 2 refineries-start, you rather use the USA or also the Cartel (see my Guide for a Cartel Build Opening).

Chimera is more succesful if you use the early SAS-Advantage to the most by just conquering all 3 banks with 18 Felins and securing each with 1 SAS which defends not only recon teams but you also survive troope transporters conquering your bank.
With beginning minute 3 I have captured all 3 banks, a minute later I have 1 SAS at each and 3-6 SAS at the base or to gain map control. You can also add single felins to send accross the map for Ref-captures, it usually works.
After 18 Felins and 3-6 SAS from 3 Barracks I start getting the oil/Alu fields and the Vehicle Bay, sometimes the Support bay instead.
Thiswise you also have enough SAS to statisfyingly fill your Pumas and namers with reasonable amounts of SAS and then your PUMA rush will also be succesful!
Remember that you can just snipe the enemy home bank and you have a STRONG bunker just in front of his base!
You can also (instead of attackig his buildings) only kill the units and the economy with pumas and use the surrounding buildings to nail your opponent (who cannot expand!) until you are strong enough to give the last ditch.

Sorry for the long text. I Spoilered it to improve the readability of the thread.

Alternatively you can build the spear vehicle bay right at start with enough money for 2 pumas to rush the USA base.
(You sell the vehicle bay afterwards to get a normal economy then.) Its not the best build but depending on your rush it has at least the same potential like 3 Recon Teams to be viable.

Please try this and tell me if you agree.
Yours Sincerly Kampfkekskrieger
Last edited by KampfKeksKrieger on Sun 23 Aug 2015 17:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby gugusfurz » Sun 23 Aug 2015 11:12

Could you share some replays of that 3barracks strategy with us?

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KampfKeksKrieger
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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby KampfKeksKrieger » Sun 23 Aug 2015 12:13

gugusfurz wrote:Could you share some replays of that 3barracks strategy with us?


I have some old replays (with earlier versions) ongoing on AoAreplays.org. Not sure if they will work still. There has been some trouble with crahes in the older versions, but maybe you still manage to watch them.

I use the 3 Barracks opening in here also.
It was mainly an Anit-MGS-Rush-Game played unto the end until Victory.
http://www.gamereplays.org/actofaggress ... &id=305183

And This is a 3-er UGV-Defense mainly. I keep in mind that UGVs might not be as dangerous as Recon Teams, but I think its still worth it to show.
http://www.gamereplays.org/actofaggress ... &id=305185

I will play some Chimera Matches again today (focussed Cartel the last weeks).
I have to check if the last patch did also destroy this good strategy.
I will come back later again...

---
One edit to repair a broken Link

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Megiddo
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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby Megiddo » Sun 23 Aug 2015 16:22

agreed, UGVs are quite lethal if you can hide them till they arrive at short range for maximum firepower, and full infantry openings are very effective both defensively and for early map control. it's always interesting to try and test many, many different base build orders and strategies.

Nice reminders here KampfKeksKrieger.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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KampfKeksKrieger
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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby KampfKeksKrieger » Sun 23 Aug 2015 17:39

Megiddo wrote:agreed, UGVs are quite lethal if you can hide them till they arrive at short range for maximum firepower, and full infantry openings are very effective both defensively and for early map control. it's always interesting to try and test many, many different base build orders and strategies.

Nice reminders here KampfKeksKrieger.

Thank you mate!

Oh and à propos reminders: Reading that word reminds me to something!

The Bradley (USA) from AoW also had the need to be filled with infantry to keep up with the other factions! The Bradley and the PUMA are in fact pretty similar! (But please dont use this to bash the poor Eugens again, please...)

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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby Azreal » Sun 23 Aug 2015 18:46

Rushattack wrote:
oompah wrote:+1

I play only chimera and all comments made by the OP are accurate, bunkers would be a very appropriate addition to this side


You are so wrong. IF you got good chimera tactics you can crush cartel. My name is ChimeraPower look for me in game and ill show you some technics.


Yea, i may well do. I can show you some stuff 2.

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Re: Chimera early game needs work

Postby Rushattack » Mon 24 Aug 2015 07:20

XVroomFondelX wrote:
Rushattack wrote:
oompah wrote:+1

I play only chimera and all comments made by the OP are accurate, bunkers would be a very appropriate addition to this side


You are so wrong. IF you got good chimera tactics you can crush cartel. My name is ChimeraPower look for me in game and ill show you some technics.


Man if u so good please post here or on gamereplays.com your replay pack with your technics for education, it would be better than search u in game.


I'm not going to air my tactics out. But if a player needs help I'll kindly help. I'm good player but far from the best. I just got alot of experience so far playing random. 138 wins 37 losses. If you suck at a army don't say there early game is broken. Learn to play them better.

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