Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

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TheRev
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby TheRev » Wed 9 Sep 2015 16:27

Booom3 wrote:I don't see how this is even a discussion really. It's just a pure oversight. You should always see what race the opponent picks unless they random. (and in a lot of games it's considered good manner to tell your opponent which race you got when the game starts if you random)


100% agree.

HarryD
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby HarryD » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:05

Netput wrote:The problem with not knowing your opponent faction is that you ALWAYS have to build a few vipers or a SAS at the beginning. If you don't do this you are playing build order poker. Which obviously is a terrible thing. A win should never ever be based on luck (yay, i didn't face US!), but on skill. Because of this forced start you are limiting possible openings hugely and therefore the game is more boring and predictable.


Because of this forced start you are limiting possible openings hugely

For example,..?

Booom3 wrote:You should always see what race the opponent picks unless they random. (and in a lot of games it's considered good manner to tell your opponent which race you got when the game starts if you random)

Why?

P.S.: http://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-duty-red ... interview/
Last edited by HarryD on Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:27, edited 2 times in total.
Furthermore I consider that Buratino must lose it's NPLM trait.

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torinus
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:05

Basura Nephilim wrote:Actually I ran into a player that knows what I played. So he instantly made a counter move, that killed my scout, then ruined my economy. All before I could respond properly.

Cartel always starts out with 2 - 4 vipers to defend.
That's why you always build barracks first.
It defends against both Chimera and US. But if you'r up against the US on certain maps it's still a hassle, because the Humvee outfights, outranges, and is faster (even when heavily damaged) than Vipers.

The defense units slow your build a bit, but it's very doable. Though I think it will be SO much more hard for Cartel without the element of surprise. Chimera will always get an early turret, USA will always bumrush you with heli's with stingers to murder your eco.

So, map in loading screen? Yes pls. Prefferably with the locations of resources on them, so newer people can learn the map and more expirienced ones can make a strategem.
Faction? No thank you. (if that does happen, there would need to be balance changes for every faction)

Only thing I agree here about being able to see the map during loading with all possible resource spots shown so newer players can learn faster.

You build a turret early with Chimera? Early enough to stop the US recon rush? I don't think so. Also that SAS is needed to defend your troops moving towards the bank or the recon kills your Felins.

We are talking here about top level play, not some noob 3v3 or 4v4 league?! I really don't care what those think how the game is played.

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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:06

HarryD wrote:
Netput wrote:The problem with not knowing your opponent faction is that you ALWAYS have to build a few vipers or a SAS at the beginning. If you don't do this you are playing build order poker. Which obviously is a terrible thing. A win should never ever be based on luck (yay, i didn't face US!), but on skill. Because of this forced start you are limiting possible openings hugely and therefore the game is more boring and predictable.


Because of this forced start you are limiting possible openings hugely

For example,..?

How about double refinery before barracks in Cartel vs Cartel or Chimera vs Chimera?

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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby HarryD » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:33

torinus wrote:
HarryD wrote:
Netput wrote:The problem with not knowing your opponent faction is that you ALWAYS have to build a few vipers or a SAS at the beginning. If you don't do this you are playing build order poker. Which obviously is a terrible thing. A win should never ever be based on luck (yay, i didn't face US!), but on skill. Because of this forced start you are limiting possible openings hugely and therefore the game is more boring and predictable.


Because of this forced start you are limiting possible openings hugely

For example,..?

How about double refinery before barracks in Cartel vs Cartel or Chimera vs Chimera?


And what entirely different opening does this offer? You can rush faster? A "different" openong mean different strategy: concentrate on land units, or air, or helis, or just defend until you get the tac weapon, or clean the half of the town with inf to capture all the banks there instead of rushing into tanks directly. Or create different composition of battlegroups, bet on fast and light units to poke your opponent to death or choose heavy units to steamroll him. Or just concentrate on the supply lines diversions. That are the different games, and they have nothing to do with a couple of snipers you hired at the start. Think of something a bit more creative than the variations of microjerking and rush.
Last edited by HarryD on Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:37, edited 1 time in total.
Furthermore I consider that Buratino must lose it's NPLM trait.

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Previously known as Wore on the forums

Booom3
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby Booom3 » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:35

HarryD wrote:
Booom3 wrote:You should always see what race the opponent picks unless they random. (and in a lot of games it's considered good manner to tell your opponent which race you got when the game starts if you random)

Why?

P.S.: http://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-duty-red ... interview/

What the hell does that link have to do with anything. Are you lost?
And as to why. Because openings are hugely faction-related. Some matchups will break completely for no reason and make the game look unbalanced when it isn't.

HarryD wrote:And what entirely different opening does this offer? You can rush faster? A "different" openong mean different strategy: concentrate on land units, or air, or helis, or just defend until you get the tac weapon, or clean the half of the town with inf to capture all the banks there instead of rushing into tanks directly. Or create different composition of battlegroups, bet on fast and light units to poke your opponent to death or prefer heavy units to steamroll him. Or just concentrate on the supply lines diversions. That are the different games, and they have nothing to do with a couple of snipers you hired at the start. Think of something a bit more creative than the variations of microcontrol and rush.

Oh. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

"rush tac weapon"
That's a great way to reach the bottom of the ladder as fast as possible.
Last edited by Booom3 on Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:36, edited 1 time in total.

HarryD
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby HarryD » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:43

Booom3 wrote:
HarryD wrote:
Booom3 wrote:You should always see what race the opponent picks unless they random. (and in a lot of games it's considered good manner to tell your opponent which race you got when the game starts if you random)

Why?

P.S.: http://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-duty-red ... interview/

What the hell does that link have to do with anything. Are you lost?
And as to why. Because openings are hugely faction-related. Some matchups will break completely for no reason and make the game look unbalanced when it isn't.

It depicts the kind of people whining about anything different than SC/CoD/CS they are all used to. As for good manners, in some communities it is considered good manners to spit on the hands before shaking them. Why should everyone behave as SC community?

Booom3 wrote:
HarryD wrote:And what entirely different opening does this offer? You can rush faster? A "different" openong mean different strategy: concentrate on land units, or air, or helis, or just defend until you get the tac weapon, or clean the half of the town with inf to capture all the banks there instead of rushing into tanks directly. Or create different composition of battlegroups, bet on fast and light units to poke your opponent to death or prefer heavy units to steamroll him. Or just concentrate on the supply lines diversions. That are the different games, and they have nothing to do with a couple of snipers you hired at the start. Think of something a bit more creative than the variations of microcontrol and rush.

Oh. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

"rush tac weapon"
That's a great way to reach the bottom of the ladder as fast as possible.


Best way to reach the top of the ladder is to play 24/7 without distractions like job or socialization. However you're sure it's a tank steamroll it seems. Care to give a full answer backed up with some consistent logic to look older than 14 years old?
Furthermore I consider that Buratino must lose it's NPLM trait.

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Booom3
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby Booom3 » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:53

HarryD wrote: Care to give a full answer backed up with some consistent logic to look older than 14 years old?

Straight to insults. You're a moron.

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Netput
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby Netput » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:57

Let me explain it again very carefully.

Current situation:
Cartel/Chimera is FORCED to build a barracks first and some vipers/SAS. Simply because the first FREE reckon unit from US has a great chance to win US the early game. There is NO way around it. You HAVE to do it. If you do not do it, you are gambling that you play against Chimera/Cartel. This is boring and is LIMITING your options immensely. There is absolutely no way to argue about this, as it is a simple fact.

If you could see that you play vs cartel/chimera, you can start with double oil/alu into barracks. Maybe even double barracks into 12 felins to capture both banks. All strategies (or openings if you like) are now available again if your not facing US. This instantly makes the game more interesting because you have more choices. This is true on both 'low' level play and 'high' level play.
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torinus
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Re: Huge issue - can't see what army you play against

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Sep 2015 17:59

Booom3 wrote:
HarryD wrote: Care to give a full answer backed up with some consistent logic to look older than 14 years old?

Straight to insults. You're a moron.

Boom don't go down to his level, he has more experience at it and will beat you eventually :)

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