Questions about some unit and game mechanics

User avatar
Spector
First Sergeant
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu 16 Jul 2015 19:26
Contact:

Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby Spector » Sat 3 Oct 2015 16:16

Question 1.
Why does SAS, sniper, takes 3 times longer to aim and fire(his first shot) then a missile AT infantry? It's more expensive, takes longer to build, it's slower, has almost equal range to AT infantry, and only has the benefit of shooting infantry out of buildings which is something that is used in 1% of the entire battle.

Question 2.
Why is the US recon faster AND has longer range then the Chimeras scout unit? This leads to endless kiting and Chimeras economy being ruined at start only because the enemy is US.
Sub Question: Why would scouts even have weapon systems? At least it should be an upgrade.

Question 3.
Why does the metal storm unit keep moving towards a targeted building after it has already entered firing range and starts shooting? This leads to metal storms getting destroyed by building explosions because they will not stop getting closer to the target.
Sub Question: Why does the metal storm spread it's fire to EVERYTHING else that is close to it's target? I am talking about right click attack not Q key attack order.

Question 4.
Why do artillery units that fire shells, NOT missiles, leave trails in the sky? They have only one advantage and that is ranged combat which they lose the moment they fire because the enemy can see exactly where they are at.

Question 5. Why do buildings that get destroyed by units shooting them in the fog of war show burning ground when they are destroyed through the fog of war? In other words why is the burning ground effect showing when I have no units to see it?

Question 6.
Why is the rate of pilot drops random? Why should pure luck, or random number generation be used for this mechanic?

Question 7.
Why do jets and bombers have the same fuel on small, medium and large maps?

Question 8.
Why does the UI load 2-3 seconds after the textures, buildings and the map when starting a battle?

Question 9.
Why do building explosions damage air units? Yes, units fly low but that is only a graphical representation so that those units could be controlled.

Thank you for answering in advanced.
"All your bases are belong to us", Zero Wing, 1991.

killer00100
Master Sergeant
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat 16 May 2015 04:13
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby killer00100 » Sat 3 Oct 2015 20:27

I think the answer would be (my 2 cents):

Q.1: SAS is counted as sniper with capability of shooting vehicles, not AT infantry with ability to clear the building, so SAS use sniper aiming time, not missile aiming time.

Q.2: US depend on ore resource than other factions so the refinery and recon suppose to do better than other faction and by finding resource faster than other is one of them. About weapon on US recon, Dev put it on for fighting small group of infantry and may a few light vehicles to secure resource (maybe a bit too powerful?).

Q.3: Unlike other units that damage is fixed at any range, metal storm shoot more powerful when it's closer to the target.

Q.4: So that defend side have some way to fight because shell can't be stopped by anti-missile system and some of them are so powerful that need to deal it fast or base will get destroyed.

Q.5: When something on fire, you can see smoke trail for a long way, so you can guesstimate that in that area is full of flame.

Q.6: Not like every time when vehicles explode, there would be survivor. That's why it's random.

Q.7: Maybe for realism, because each plane can contain a fixed amount of fuel (except it contain additional fuel by adding more secondary fuel tanks).

Q.8: This one I don't know. Maybe this game's graphic too high to load all for instant?

Q.9: Maybe it's Devs' intention for artillery can blast air units down to the ground (in real world, artillery shell fly through the sky can blow plane and heli off if they are in trajectory path but Devs can't stimulate this so they make blast explosive to blow air units down instead). Buildings' explosive also count into this type of damage, so it also can blow air down.

User avatar
Spector
First Sergeant
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu 16 Jul 2015 19:26
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby Spector » Sat 3 Oct 2015 21:00

Good points there, I would just add:

Q1. If we are going with realism, how much aiming would you need to hit a 20t, 10mx3m vehicle with a sniper rifle?
Q3. I must admit I never noticed metal storms doing more dmg at closer range. Is that something you have tested and confirmed or is it an assumption?
Q4. Isn't that what scout units are for? And there are also upgrades for art units to show enemy art units.
Q6. Realism aside it's bad for battle balance. At least that is how I see it.
Q9. That seems a bit far fetched to me.
"All your bases are belong to us", Zero Wing, 1991.

killer00100
Master Sergeant
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat 16 May 2015 04:13
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby killer00100 » Sun 4 Oct 2015 10:36

Spector wrote:Good points there, I would just add:

Q1. If we are going with realism, how much aiming would you need to hit a 20t, 10mx3m vehicle with a sniper rifle?
Q3. I must admit I never noticed metal storms doing more dmg at closer range. Is that something you have tested and confirmed or is it an assumption?
Q4. Isn't that what scout units are for? And there are also upgrades for art units to show enemy art units.
Q6. Realism aside it's bad for battle balance. At least that is how I see it.
Q9. That seems a bit far fetched to me.

Q.1: To aim at the vehicles, not so long. But to aim at specific part of vehicle (weak point at fuel tank, ammo storage, pilot seat, etc) to deal maximum damage which the vehicle itself might be moving in any second, a lot longer than you think.
Q.3: Tested for few times, but mostly every units (mainly tank) got a bit more severe damage (maybe due to the difference in distance isn't much) so it's a bit hard to confirmed.
Q.4: NLOS-C and Rhinos' range after upgrade is about 1/3 or 1/4 of the map (and even small maps in AoA are still quite large). Before your scout can find them, they just blow your building into ash and move away (may even prepared ambush force against scout team).
1 of the rule of using very long range unit is to move them after firing to escape counter long range attack (artillery counter or QRF).
Only Rhino have upgrade to see other artillery in the map (other factions have better fire power in artillery to compensate for this upgrade).
Q.6: I understand. For RTS, the less random is better, but this has been occur in Act of War (predecessor of this game) and there isn't much complain about this (maybe because POW in AoW is less important than in AoA).
Q.9: I don't know what is dev. intention so I can't answer this.

Blastom
Corporal
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon 3 Aug 2015 07:25
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby Blastom » Tue 6 Oct 2015 14:01

Spector wrote:Question 1.
Why does SAS, sniper, takes 3 times longer to aim and fire(his first shot) then a missile AT infantry? It's more expensive, takes longer to build, it's slower, has almost equal range to AT infantry, and only has the benefit of shooting infantry out of buildings which is something that is used in 1% of the entire battle.

Question 2.
Why is the US recon faster AND has longer range then the Chimeras scout unit? This leads to endless kiting and Chimeras economy being ruined at start only because the enemy is US.
Sub Question: Why would scouts even have weapon systems? At least it should be an upgrade.

Question 3.
Why does the metal storm unit keep moving towards a targeted building after it has already entered firing range and starts shooting? This leads to metal storms getting destroyed by building explosions because they will not stop getting closer to the target.
Sub Question: Why does the metal storm spread it's fire to EVERYTHING else that is close to it's target? I am talking about right click attack not Q key attack order.

Question 4.
Why do artillery units that fire shells, NOT missiles, leave trails in the sky? They have only one advantage and that is ranged combat which they lose the moment they fire because the enemy can see exactly where they are at.

Question 5. Why do buildings that get destroyed by units shooting them in the fog of war show burning ground when they are destroyed through the fog of war? In other words why is the burning ground effect showing when I have no units to see it?

Question 6.
Why is the rate of pilot drops random? Why should pure luck, or random number generation be used for this mechanic?

Question 7.
Why do jets and bombers have the same fuel on small, medium and large maps?

Question 8.
Why does the UI load 2-3 seconds after the textures, buildings and the map when starting a battle?

Question 9.
Why do building explosions damage air units? Yes, units fly low but that is only a graphical representation so that those units could be controlled.

Thank you for answering in advanced.

1. I used to think it's a compensation to the time rockets take to impact, so that 2 SAS won't kill a puma instantly after popped out from a namer. But later I found viper inflicted damage before the rocket impact :) yeah, you can check, the target will be destroyed before the rocket impact.
Still the delay is ok to give the vehicles some time to retaliate.

2. The gun on US recon shall be removed for sure. For Cartel, it's annoying but still ok. For chimera, the us recon can always force trade with a SAS and a suicide crusher. Or if worse, move around the SAS and detonates multiple crushers. This force Chimera to place one SAS at each of refinery at the very beginning. And the US recon can just delay the secondary refinery simply by standing at where it shall be placed as it's hard for AT infantry to move without vehicles.
Something like swap the health and range of us and chimera recon can be handy.

3. Should be some kind of bug :)

4. It's ok the see the incoming direction of artillery as in other RTS games, the artillery will reveal itself on fire.

5. It's a bug, I think. I used this bug a lot, due to the fact that Cartel has no air recon beyond turret range. It's ok to leave it as this gives the attacker some advantage, while the defenders have already tons of advantage comparing to the other games.

6. Maybe a controlled random can be implemented. For example, if the drop rate is 25%, I destroyed 4 vehicles and no pilot has been dropped, I'll gurentee to get one from next vehicle.

7. Didn't notice this :(

8. It's quite hard to balance. If there's more fuel for aircraft in larger map, the fighters and ground attackers will be too good in defense. There needs some elegant solution.

9. It's ok for me to leave it or fix it :) if it can evetually hit some bombers that attacked the building, it's better to be fixed for sure. If it affects just choppers, it's fine.

User avatar
libbmaster
Lieutenant
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun 2 Jun 2013 00:00
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby libbmaster » Tue 6 Oct 2015 14:33

Spector wrote:Sub Question: Why does the metal storm spread it's fire to EVERYTHING else that is close to it's target? I am talking about right click attack not Q key attack order.


I can field this.


They are forced to "miss", just like rapid fire auto-cannons (vextra, terminator)... for reasons.

User avatar
Araton
Warrant Officer
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu 9 Jul 2015 16:48
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby Araton » Wed 7 Oct 2015 10:59

Blastom wrote:
Spector wrote:Question 1.
Why does SAS, sniper, takes 3 times longer to aim and fire(his first shot) then a missile AT infantry? It's more expensive, takes longer to build, it's slower, has almost equal range to AT infantry, and only has the benefit of shooting infantry out of buildings which is something that is used in 1% of the entire battle.

Question 2.
Why is the US recon faster AND has longer range then the Chimeras scout unit? This leads to endless kiting and Chimeras economy being ruined at start only because the enemy is US.
Sub Question: Why would scouts even have weapon systems? At least it should be an upgrade.

Question 3.
Why does the metal storm unit keep moving towards a targeted building after it has already entered firing range and starts shooting? This leads to metal storms getting destroyed by building explosions because they will not stop getting closer to the target.
Sub Question: Why does the metal storm spread it's fire to EVERYTHING else that is close to it's target? I am talking about right click attack not Q key attack order.

Question 4.
Why do artillery units that fire shells, NOT missiles, leave trails in the sky? They have only one advantage and that is ranged combat which they lose the moment they fire because the enemy can see exactly where they are at.

Question 5. Why do buildings that get destroyed by units shooting them in the fog of war show burning ground when they are destroyed through the fog of war? In other words why is the burning ground effect showing when I have no units to see it?

Question 6.
Why is the rate of pilot drops random? Why should pure luck, or random number generation be used for this mechanic?

Question 7.
Why do jets and bombers have the same fuel on small, medium and large maps?

Question 8.
Why does the UI load 2-3 seconds after the textures, buildings and the map when starting a battle?

Question 9.
Why do building explosions damage air units? Yes, units fly low but that is only a graphical representation so that those units could be controlled.

Thank you for answering in advanced.

1. I used to think it's a compensation to the time rockets take to impact, so that 2 SAS won't kill a puma instantly after popped out from a namer. But later I found viper inflicted damage before the rocket impact :) yeah, you can check, the target will be destroyed before the rocket impact.
Still the delay is ok to give the vehicles some time to retaliate.


Since SAS are non-stealth and slow units, they should wear a anti-ballistic/anti-high explosive suite (what the Grenadier/Shershen/Mortar team wears) and have their HP increased to 8 to 10 to make them somewhat useful. As Spector mentioned it, their use is very limited after the first 5 minutes into the game. You need more than one SAS to repel 1 US surveyor (without losses, if the SAS doesn't have DU rounds, which they obviously don't have that early)

I would suggest giving the SAS more HP, maybe even through an upgrade and maybe make them survive a normal sniper shot from the US.

torinus
Lieutenant
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri 15 May 2015 22:39
Contact:

Re: Questions about some unit and game mechanics

Postby torinus » Wed 7 Oct 2015 11:15

I noticed they die to USA tank Stryker, those Stryker two shot them and seem to have same or very similar range as SAS. For a expensive AT unit that is not good enough.

Return to “Act of Aggression”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests