Do you even care about your community?

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tactic
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Focus says yes

Postby tactic » Wed 9 Mar 2016 12:59

apropos, Focus says yes:


Hello,

Thank you for contacting the technical support of Focus Home Interactive.

Yes, Eugen Systems is still publishing updates for their game.

You can report game issues to the developers for investigation in the official forum:
viewforum.php?f=195

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Regards,

Technical Support
Focus Home Interactive


-----Message d'origine-----
De : webmaster@focus-home.com [mailto:webmaster@focus-home.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 9 mars 2016 05:00
À : support <support@focus-home.com>
Objet : Act of Aggression [PC]


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Message envoyé via le formulaire du site de Focus par ...
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Hello,

...



Will those be patched?

When?



...





Thank You!

[INFOS COMPLEMENTAIRES]
- Système d`exploitation indiqué : ...
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Game on!

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Megiddo
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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby Megiddo » Wed 9 Mar 2016 13:03

torinus wrote:
C&C Generals was not focused on macro. It was more micro. We never did attacks in Generals with mass units like it is common in AoA. You attacked with 1-2 bombers or 5 helicopters or 10 tanks or 1 commando unit. 2-3 Mammoth(Overlord) Tanks could do real damage to enemy and for instance GLA defended vs that with 5-10 rocket buggies and good micro to keep out of Overlord Tank cannon range as rocket buggy would get one shot.

C&C Generals was a less micro intensive Starcraft but it was also very fast and let micro win battles more often than not.
That is why it was so good. It was not as hard to play as Starcraft but fast enough to be lots of fun and had lots of cool and explosive units and lots of options for fun and mostly balanced gameplay.

BTW, all you said above sounds very good and I support it. I am not looking for C&C General 1:1 copy, I just want fun and fast gameplay using current and near future units. Changes to that need to make gameplay better, not slower or stupider like AoA did in its current iteration.


Yeah i agree with your point of view about the C&C gameplay and the amount of micro involved in it. we had a bit more units than in AoW maybe, but i agree. In fact my observation was mainly about the C&C legendary image they used to advertise AoA.

tactic wrote:apropos, Focus says yes:



Plenty of us already know that. There are also some clues hidden in the Matrix (unless Eugen is playing with us :twisted:).
Last edited by Megiddo on Wed 9 Mar 2016 13:23, edited 1 time in total.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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Salsifi
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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby Salsifi » Wed 9 Mar 2016 13:21

Megiddo wrote:That's why i don't understand this macro-oriented approach


Maybe because the Iris engine is not really efficient for a micro intensive gameplay... remember the strange delay between order and action ?

Maybe also that they thought they could catch a large part of gamers who don't like micro management in RTS games... Another point.
The problem is that these guys don't really play a RTS for a long time and not with the behavior and play style some esport fans want...

I personnaly have no problem with a game which put the macro management in front of the battle options.
There are enough actions to do with the base, the resources, the research in AoA.

This is another point : you can do lot of things in AoA and the micro part of the gameplay can overpass lot of players.
So the decision in favor of macro management is a good solution.

But where they have left behind them their great ideas is when they have decided to make too common factions.
At this step, the result could have hidden lot of things.

Look at the chimera trailer... Nobody sees that there is a problem between the trailer and the faction in the game ?
The trailer says and shows that this is a faction of infantry : they should have make infantries as squads for chimera and really cheap...
The mechanized units should have only one upgrade like the old striker in AoW in order to make reality the fact that it is an adaptative faction.

But the result in AoA is just : we research all upgrades and we have the terminator the killer of all...
Not really the spirit of the Chimera.

Same here for the Cartel... Hard to master... Where ? I only want to build Choppers and kill everythings.
I hope that the new feature will impact the furtivity of the infantry and Cartel in order to return to a quick, light, killer faction.

The only faction which is in line with the trailer and her background is the US. Power, mass, macro. Kill them all on the road.

So with the three faction, everyone could be happy :
- US for spammers and beginners who don't like micro
- Chimera for good ol squad system and adaptative play style with some choices
- Cartel for players who like a real challenge, want micro intensive actions...

And death to OP threads or useless report from Steam forum :lol: ... Balance intensive iterations kill always originality and good features.

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Megiddo
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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby Megiddo » Wed 9 Mar 2016 13:36

Salsifi wrote:
Megiddo wrote:That's why i don't understand this macro-oriented approach


Maybe because the Iris engine is not really efficient for a micro intensive gameplay... remember the strange delay between order and action ?


Worked well in Ruse, works well in Wargame. With bigger maps. Why not in AoA? i'm not a specialist, but certainly because of an approximative optimization. too much units on the field and so too much calculations at the same time. balance and game design have to aim for the best experience and playability, that's all.

Still delays, inherent to the engine? Game design to compensate. inertia for vehicles, acceleration values...

Salsifi wrote:Maybe also that they thought they could catch a large part of gamers who don't like micro management in RTS games... Another point.
The problem is that these guys don't really play a RTS for a long time and not with the behavior and play style some esport fans want...


Good point. to your sense, a player will prefer uncontrollable big blobs and a map design where even the walls don't have obstruction values for the lines of sight? or playing with a few, controllable units, and understand how to reverse gear with them and so benefit from the temporary cover given by this same wall?

If nowadays players don't choose the second option, honestly, AoA cause is lost.
Last edited by Megiddo on Wed 9 Mar 2016 14:04, edited 1 time in total.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Mar 2016 13:50

Macro focused games already lost the race. There is no really popular macro oriented game. And those that went all in micro (like MOBAs) are most popular. Even Starcraft that is most micro of classic RTS games struggles vs those.

Only question remains what kind of flavor you want to put with your micro oriented strategy game.
Classic RTS one? Starcraft
Squad based one? CoH2
Realistic modern warfare one? Wargame

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Salsifi
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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby Salsifi » Wed 9 Mar 2016 14:11

You forget all guys who make 1000000 units before the first battle... :lol:

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby AndreB » Wed 9 Mar 2016 14:43

torinus wrote:Macro focused games already lost the race. There is no really popular macro oriented game. And those that went all in micro (like MOBAs) are most popular. Even Starcraft that is most micro of classic RTS games struggles vs those.

Only question remains what kind of flavor you want to put with your micro oriented strategy game.
Classic RTS one? Starcraft
Squad based one? CoH2
Realistic modern warfare one? Wargame


That is not true, supreme commander forged alliance forever is stronger than ever in term's of playerbase, higher than all of the games mentioned.

Id like to think the problem isn't related to the macro itself, people like to build thing's in RTS and have large bases, the problem with AoA is that it's complicated to grasp, it's not an easy game to pick up and play a simple build and have fun.

The problem with RTS's versus MOBA's are several.

You don't have champion's constantly getting out changing the meta and adding new and interesting way's to play the game.
Instead you have large cycles where the meta doesn't change, and everyone is trying to figure out what the best build is. People that don't enjoy the meta for their champion in MOBA's can always change hero and play something else, or wait until the release of the next monthly champion.
In a RTS your stuck with your faction, because changing faction is a pain to learn everything else again.

You don't have skin's in RTS, or off-game progression of any kind.
Also moba's have the easy heroes for new players, you don't have the easy faction's in RTS for you to play? because they must all be balanced.

Eugen tried to make the US faction the easy one to get into, while still making it balanced, we all know how that turned out.
In the end, It has nothing to do with micro versus macro, a good RTS has a good mix of both.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Mar 2016 14:55

AndreB wrote:
torinus wrote:Macro focused games already lost the race. There is no really popular macro oriented game. And those that went all in micro (like MOBAs) are most popular. Even Starcraft that is most micro of classic RTS games struggles vs those.

Only question remains what kind of flavor you want to put with your micro oriented strategy game.
Classic RTS one? Starcraft
Squad based one? CoH2
Realistic modern warfare one? Wargame


That is not true, supreme commander forged alliance forever is stronger than ever in term's of playerbase, higher than all of the games mentioned.


I just checked max players daily. Supreme Commander FA maxes out at 750+ in last few days.
In comparison Wargame Red Dragon has 1700-1800 and CoH2 about 10 000.
So yea, you are wrong.

EDIT: And planetary Annihilation has around max 400 players.
Last edited by torinus on Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby AndreB » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:00

torinus wrote:
AndreB wrote:
torinus wrote:Macro focused games already lost the race. There is no really popular macro oriented game. And those that went all in micro (like MOBAs) are most popular. Even Starcraft that is most micro of classic RTS games struggles vs those.

Only question remains what kind of flavor you want to put with your micro oriented strategy game.
Classic RTS one? Starcraft
Squad based one? CoH2
Realistic modern warfare one? Wargame


That is not true, supreme commander forged alliance forever is stronger than ever in term's of playerbase, higher than all of the games mentioned.


I just checked players daily. Supreme Comander FA maxes out at 750+ in last few days.
In comparison Wargame Red Dragon has 1700 and CoH2 about 10 000.
So yea, you are wrong.

What? http://www.faforever.com/ where did you get that number steam? faforever is off steam.
2213 Unique players last 24 hours.
5835 Unique players last 7 days.
10522 Unique players last 30 days.

308 Ladder games last 24 hours.
1940 Ladder games last 7 days.
9121 Ladder games last 30 days.

2280 Custom games last 24 hours.
15743 Custom games last 7 days.
64321 Custom games last 30 days.

Sorry, If anything i was aluring to grey goo, homeworld, AoA, ashes, but still that number is off.

About wargame itself, FAF reaches higher than 1k on a daily basis, sure it fluctuates but has a higher playerbase than wargame.
Last edited by AndreB on Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:06, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:04

I already explained why those specific games failed.

I am now talking why other macro focused games that didn't fail in basic stuff are not popular. And don't have a single one to show as popular.
To compare their popularity you go http://steamspy.com/app/251060 (this is Wargame RD) and check CCU tab for each of the games.

Find me macro focused strategy that is at least as popular as Wargame RD and if you manage lets see if you can reach half popularity of CoH2.

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