Do you even care about your community?

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Megiddo
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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby Megiddo » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:09

Not the main problem anyways. There are indeed very good macro oriented games, Forged alliance is one of them. Its design was perfect for that. a flux economy, big bases with plenty of defensive options, big armies, giant units, a map design with wide paths and opened battlefields, efficient routines for the formations and the engagements...and a bit of micro for the combat or defensive techniques.

In this sense, Forged alliance macro orientation was well designed, coherent, and so successful. We all have to admit that the first Supcom and Forged Alliance were great successes. Even the old Total Annihilation is Still played a lot today. As some other titles btw, Ashes seems quite promising from this point of view...And don't forget that these games come from a time where we bought a game in a box. many stats don't take in account the portion of players playing it outside of steam for example :)

As AndreB said, its a fair equilibrium to find according to the game and the main gameplay orientation that the devs want to obtain.

For now, AoA has not chosen its right place yet. The new version has to precise that and put the emphasis on Eugen strenghs.
Last edited by Megiddo on Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:20, edited 2 times in total.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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AndreB
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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby AndreB » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:14

torinus wrote:I already explained why those specific games failed.

I am now talking why other macro focused games that didn't fail in basic stuff are not popular. And don't have a single one to show as popular.
To compare their popularity you go http://steamspy.com/app/251060 (this is Wargame RD) and check CCU tab for each of the games.

Find me macro focused strategy that is at least as popular as Wargame RD and if you manage lets see if you can reach half popularity of CoH2.


Well forged alliance is just check http://www.faforever.com/ as i already said.

Most people that play FAF are not on steam so you have to check the stats in their website.

In terms of being half than company of heroes it has a current peak of 6717 players, it sometimes reaches half of it but it doesn't reach more than 3k or 4k.

Also dawn of war 1 and 2 have a very low player base, and their gameplay is all around micro and calling in unit's, also world in conflict another micro focused RTS didn't do well and it released way back.
Last edited by AndreB on Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:25

AndreB wrote:
torinus wrote:I already explained why those specific games failed.

I am now talking why other macro focused games that didn't fail in basic stuff are not popular. And don't have a single one to show as popular.
To compare their popularity you go http://steamspy.com/app/251060 (this is Wargame RD) and check CCU tab for each of the games.

Find me macro focused strategy that is at least as popular as Wargame RD and if you manage lets see if you can reach half popularity of CoH2.


Well forged alliance is just check http://www.faforever.com/ as i already said.

Most people that play FAF are not on steam so you have to check the stats in their website.

Also dawn of war 1 and 2 have a very low playerabase, and their gameplay is all around micro and calling in unit's, also world in conflict another micro focused RTS didn't do well and it released way back.

Those stats mean nothing to me as they can be faked, you didn't even link me the link with stats. Also if your previous post about 2000 unique players in 24h is good that is pathetic.
Wargame RD has 1700-1800 peak players, unique player numbers in 24 is probably at least 4x that. Find peak player numbers for SP FA so we can compare. Since I can only get them from Steam I can only accept that as official results.

Also why are you mentioning DAW1 and DAW2 now? I asked you to find macro focused games that are as popular as Wargame or CoH2.
Those other games failed for their own reasons, we are now looking for at least one macro focused successful RTS because micro focused have couple of successful examples.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby AndreB » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:32

torinus wrote:
AndreB wrote:
torinus wrote:I already explained why those specific games failed.

I am now talking why other macro focused games that didn't fail in basic stuff are not popular. And don't have a single one to show as popular.
To compare their popularity you go http://steamspy.com/app/251060 (this is Wargame RD) and check CCU tab for each of the games.

Find me macro focused strategy that is at least as popular as Wargame RD and if you manage lets see if you can reach half popularity of CoH2.


Well forged alliance is just check http://www.faforever.com/ as i already said.

Most people that play FAF are not on steam so you have to check the stats in their website.

Also dawn of war 1 and 2 have a very low playerabase, and their gameplay is all around micro and calling in unit's, also world in conflict another micro focused RTS didn't do well and it released way back.

Those stats mean nothing to me as they can be faked, you didn't even link me the link with stats. Also if your previous post about 2000 unique players in 24h is good that is pathetic.
Wargame RD has 1700-1800 peak players, unique player numbers in 24 is probably at least 4x that. Find peak player numbers for SP FA so we can compare. Since I can only get them from Steam I can only accept that as official results.

Also why are you mentioning DAW1 and DAW2 now? I asked you to find macro focused games that are as popular as Wargame or CoH2.
Those other games failed for their own reasons, we are now looking for at least one macro focused successful RTS because micro focused have couple of successful examples.


Well the stats are in that link, its in the right side of the website.

About it being faked, well Supreme commander didn't release on steam way back when, and FAF is a community run service for those wanting to play multiplayer.

So i guess theres no discussion to be had here because the stats themselves can't be read by steam since most people don't play on steam lol.

About peak players i can try asking in chat, but i doubt youll believe the data ill post.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby torinus » Wed 9 Mar 2016 15:45

AndreB wrote:
torinus wrote:
AndreB wrote:Well forged alliance is just check http://www.faforever.com/ as i already said.

Most people that play FAF are not on steam so you have to check the stats in their website.

Also dawn of war 1 and 2 have a very low playerabase, and their gameplay is all around micro and calling in unit's, also world in conflict another micro focused RTS didn't do well and it released way back.

Those stats mean nothing to me as they can be faked, you didn't even link me the link with stats. Also if your previous post about 2000 unique players in 24h is good that is pathetic.
Wargame RD has 1700-1800 peak players, unique player numbers in 24 is probably at least 4x that. Find peak player numbers for SP FA so we can compare. Since I can only get them from Steam I can only accept that as official results.

Also why are you mentioning DAW1 and DAW2 now? I asked you to find macro focused games that are as popular as Wargame or CoH2.
Those other games failed for their own reasons, we are now looking for at least one macro focused successful RTS because micro focused have couple of successful examples.


Well the stats are in that link, its in the right side of the website.

About it being faked, well Supreme commander didn't release on steam way back when, and FAF is a community run service for those wanting to play multiplayer.

So i guess theres no discussion to be had here because the stats themselves can't be read by steam since most people don't play on steam lol.

About peak players i can try asking in chat, but i doubt youll believe the data ill post.

Ok so lets take the
10522 Unique players last 30 days.

Wargame RD has on steamspy around 40 000 audience in last 2 weeks.

As I said, find a macro based game that is at least as popular as wargame which is not really an achievement. CoH2 level of popularity is what a C&C Generals inspired AoA should aim for because it can based on C&C Generals having millions of buyers.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby oompah » Wed 9 Mar 2016 16:57

the C&C games were both strategic and tactical. It depended on how you approached it and how skilled you were.

At the top end of the skill ceiling players were very very micro focused (stop bombing vindicators in RA3, technical spin out range attacks in Generals, laser locking rocket soldiers, shielding infantry that take first fire from turrets, etc...)

but at the same time, out resourcing and hence out producing and then out spamming an effective unit was always a viable tactic, just less so as the players skill increased. Red Alert 3 for example had crazy toggle and special abilities that when stacked allowed much smaller forces to beat a bigger generically composed army. But because the game never reached a SC2 like audience those tactics never became main stream.

I think in the beginning because C&C could be played both as a tactical micro fest and as a spam macro fest it was well loved.

What always separated the C&C games and made them my favorite type of RTS was that flexibility along with two other game design mechanics

#1 you could always rapidly respond when playing defense. if your opponent caught you off-guard with a stealth or sneak attack, if you were diligent you could quickly get some turrets placed or slap down a barracks and spam out infantry to try to thwart the attack, in SC2 if you get caught with your pants down you can't recover

#2 when flanking the enemy in a fight your units would auto shoot and move, so you could focus on the flank maneuver and staying at the proper range and not get into a kite fest, which I always despise in RTS games. Move, stop, fire, move, stop fire -- hate that. C&C always had more flow to combat

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby torinus » Thu 10 Mar 2016 10:51

I am sure the announcement is imminent.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby AndreB » Thu 10 Mar 2016 14:27

torinus wrote:I am sure the announcement is imminent.


More than imminent, it has already arrived.

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby Salsifi » Thu 10 Mar 2016 15:57

AndreB wrote:
torinus wrote:I am sure the announcement is imminent.


More than imminent, it has already arrived.


Yes, this new iteration is a great success.
The game is really enjoyable now.

But the change log is missing :lol:

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Re: Do you even care about your community?

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Fri 11 Mar 2016 11:35

We have just been announcing AoA: Reboot Edition here:
viewtopic.php?p=918405#p918404

This massive overhaul of the game should address most of the major complaints made about AoA so far.
We do hope dissatisfied players will give it a try, and maybe reconsider their opinion of the game.

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