The Puma.

Opticalx
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The Puma.

Postby Opticalx » Sat 26 Mar 2016 09:52

With the reboot, this unit has become a very weak unit in the early stages of the game.
Off the production line, this unit gets two shot by US and Cartels rocket infi well its description says ( very effective vs infantry )
It can be kited very well by cartels scorpio, and US thunderbolt just laughs at it.
The point being after a lot of play testing with the guys, we feel the unit needs something to help it just slightly so its not a complete waste of money.
We felt that giving the unit 2 seats off the bat would be an great addition to it, as it does not provide any utility without its upgrade which is very costly at the start of the game.
Another way would be to make 2 upgrades say 500 for the 4 seats and 1000 for the extra armor, because currently chimera really lack an fast early game transport well the other factions do not suffer so much from this issue.
Since the other factions have great counters to the unit I do not see how it would break balance in any way.
I know unit balance is not your main focus as of now, but with your latest patch, its created a really fast early game now and we are all loving it! The action can kick really quickly and the pace feels very near on point now, which is just great for 1 vs 1 matchups.
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Netput
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Re: The Puma.

Postby Netput » Sat 26 Mar 2016 12:01

The puma is terrible indeed. Not sure about your suggested changes, but it surely can use some love. I wouldn't mind a slight hp buff so it can survive 2 rocket shots.
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Araton
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Re: The Puma.

Postby Araton » Sat 26 Mar 2016 12:19

The default 2 seat option is something I don't like and reason for that is quick rushing with either SAS or felins backed up by a puma (which is still good against non-AT infantry). Maybe a slight HP upgrade could do the trick.

Opticalx
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Re: The Puma.

Postby Opticalx » Sat 26 Mar 2016 13:40

Araton wrote:The default 2 seat option is something I don't like and reason for that is quick rushing with either SAS or felins backed up by a puma (which is still good against non-AT infantry). Maybe a slight HP upgrade could do the trick.


TFT in AoW had a buggy that carried 2 soldiers and moved really fast and the heavy sniper. Sas are not an issue, you got to think of the fact of how much it would cost to get a puma/sas going 1100+650. That is a whole lot for that sas can be over run easy they move slow and fire slow.
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AndreB
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Re: The Puma.

Postby AndreB » Sat 26 Mar 2016 14:57

So there are multiple ways to look at the unit.

0- Cost is good, i mean its not an expensive unit compared to what the other factions have, its just the upgrade thats the problem.

1- Damage versus tanks is more than fine, versus choppers is quite good even, it still takes a bit too loong to reload, and takes awhile to kill harvestors but still its decent for what it does.

2- Damage versus buildings is also decent, i mean it kills mgnests decently now.

3- Damage versus infantry, is complete garbage, a 200 javelin can counter a single unapgraded puma, and i think here is where it lies the issue, the unit itself in quantity is fine but early game is just too underwelming, especially compared to a US humvee or a cartel scorpio.

4- About the troop transport capabilities, i kinda feel that the default puma is almost a skipable unit, currently i do get like 1 or 2 default pumas and then get the upgrade. I was a proponent of giving the puma a default 2 troop transports seats, but i can see SAS rushing with a puma be a bit problematic to deal with.

Conclusions(Options the devs can take):

1 - Buff its dps versus infantry a bit.

2 - I personaly think the default and upgrade hp is where it should be, i mean for vipers/sas/javelins to kill it, its hp is good enough. But the upgrade cost can be reduced i feel.

3 - Remove or reduce the puma reload on its gun. This will make it kill infantry faster and help the micro against early scorpios or humvees.

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Re: The Puma.

Postby oompah » Sat 26 Mar 2016 15:36

in vanilla AoA, Chimera was the turtle early, expand late side. They used expanding, turrets, smoke, mirrors to compete until they could territory grab. Not sure how it plays out in the new build, but it's ok to have a side designed to not be equal early.

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ZxGanon
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Re: The Puma.

Postby ZxGanon » Sat 26 Mar 2016 15:45

AndreB wrote:So there are multiple ways to look at the unit.

0- Cost is good, i mean its not an expensive unit compared to what the other factions have, its just the upgrade thats the problem.

1- Damage versus tanks is more than fine, versus choppers is quite good even, it still takes a bit too loong to reload, and takes awhile to kill harvestors but still its decent for what it does.

2- Damage versus buildings is also decent, i mean it kills mgnests decently now.

3- Damage versus infantry, is complete garbage, a 200 javelin can counter a single unapgraded puma, and i think here is where it lies the issue, the unit itself in quantity is fine but early game is just too underwelming, especially compared to a US humvee or a cartel scorpio.

4- About the troop transport capabilities, i kinda feel that the default puma is almost a skipable unit, currently i do get like 1 or 2 default pumas and then get the upgrade. I was a proponent of giving the puma a default 2 troop transports seats, but i can see SAS rushing with a puma be a bit problematic to deal with.

Conclusions(Options the devs can take):

1 - Buff its dps versus infantry a bit.

2 - I personaly think the default and upgrade hp is where it should be, i mean for vipers/sas/javelins to kill it, its hp is good enough. But the upgrade cost can be reduced i feel.

3 - Remove or reduce the puma reload on its gun. This will make it kill infantry faster and help the micro against early scorpios or humvees.

The first option is the best.

Increasing it´s damage against infantry is what this tank needs since the theme of Chimera is all about that every unit can do everything but not as good as US specified units. But the damage of Pumas against Infantry is super puny which should be addressed.
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Netput
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Re: The Puma.

Postby Netput » Sat 26 Mar 2016 15:53

What's the use of that if it dies against 2 shots from a rocket trooper? Should it win 1v1 or not?
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torinus
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Re: The Puma.

Postby torinus » Sat 26 Mar 2016 15:58

When buffing puma remember that some units work better in bigger groups. Especially units with fast attack speed.
Units like rocket infantry work worse in big groups as they all tend to fire at first target and then reload for a long time.
A group of Pumas will wreck bigger groups of infantry due to them being able to switch targets quickly

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Megiddo
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Re: The Puma.

Postby Megiddo » Sat 26 Mar 2016 17:45

Good points.

That's just my humble opinion, but for me the problem is the direct availability of the spear vehicles bay, where the support bay with a little price reduction could be perfect.

The Namer could be great at this place. 1200 oil, less attack power but a good durability (vs scorpio for the same price or some javelins for example, specially with its HMG), already capable to transport units (mostly with Felins if you want to cheese or harass very early, then with 1 or 2 SAS if you want a bit more impact but with a longer timing)

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