[Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Hakime
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Hakime » Fri 15 Apr 2016 06:21

It's allready pretty hard to get a game right now, this will only divide the games further as newer players will not want to play against players above their level. And I really don't see a lot of games doing this, except for ones who have millions of players allready playing. I wouldn't mind then, but first let players actually get into a game before dividing them again.

lincrono
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby lincrono » Fri 15 Apr 2016 16:52

Have to agree, stripping stat's is terrible, but only because it then makes it harder for noobs to ID who they're playing with. the community has already given us a pretty useful tool in the replay-tool's player database which they can use to figure out 'hey, I'm level 10 and everyone joining my 'noobs' game is lvl 20+ . . . If we strip everyone's stats i'll become damn near impossible to figure out who you're playing with and the concept of 'fair' games will virtually cease to exist.

That being said, I've found lvls to be a pretty poor indicator. I've gone up against players who wrecked house in the vanilla game and been surprised at their poor performance. I've watched lvl 11's crush teams of lvl 20-28 players because they were left alone long enough, or defended well enough to generate a game ending mob. I don't want them visible, because ppl too easily kick dudes higher then them cuz they must to be 'better' or lower then them cuz they 'suck'. However, it is a pretty good indicator of total game time and players should have the right to be able to look post game, or with the replay tool and see: 'ok he was 20, I'm 10, he's got ~~150 more hours then me, knowing that how did I do?"
Last edited by lincrono on Fri 15 Apr 2016 17:32, edited 2 times in total.

lincrono
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea"

Postby lincrono » Fri 15 Apr 2016 17:16

Predatorrrr wrote:
tactic wrote:implement it in a way that especially noobs and mid players can really take notice of the good players


And avoid the so called good players? Resulting in what exactly? "Pros" get no games anymore because they get kicked every time. I see this happening to both me and a lot of friends every single day! If you implement this change you will NOT strengthen the playerbase, you will weaken it. Good players will leave because they do not get games anymore. Waiting in lobbies will make them sick. You want a game which does not include good players? That is just ... not smart ... in my humble opinion.

Here is the core question for you:
What exactly would be the incentive to keep playing this game when leveling up results in getting less and less games?


Srry but I can't let this one stand, have you considered that perhaps you get kicked due to play style? and I don't only mean factions and units, I don't even mean rolling around with premade teams that are, literally, the top dudes in the game. I mean the petty stuff, like changing your name between games so you and your buds can sucker the same dudes 2-3 times in a row.

I'm a soldier, I have a life, and to be quite frank I don't tie enough of my ego to this game to really 'feel' a loss. Infact, the more surprising/clever the tactic that killed me the better because now I get to have some fun developing counters, modifying my play, trying to pull it off myself, and hoping some day I face it again to test if my counters work. but for the new/mid level player that runs into your team, who struggles mightily in the early game vs all kinds of bank capturing, Scorpio smoking harassment only to die to something ridiculous like a Losat rush, or a stryker blob fueled by 20+ refineries, or a giant mob of shadowhawks (fun fact for the readers: they kill buildings better than apaches for 40% of the price) that loss burns and when he composes himself, and dives into the next game only to realize 5 minutes in: same players, same tactics, same stunning defeat . . . that my friend is why people quit.

If we want to make change happen and foster this game's growth it doesn't happen here in the forums with quaint arguments. It happens in game. It happens when you decide to NOT use a crippling tactic you know they probably can't counter. It happens when you hold you tongue as your base burns and instead of flaming the noob that left your flank open you coach him through the rest of the game.

does that mean you're gonna be perfect? Nope. You're gonna get more that a few silent bobs who don't listen or even acknowledge you and you're gonna get more than a few where it is latterly like pulling teeth to get them to do simple things like 'move all your tanks to the left and come in when I clear the bridge.' They're gonna frustrate you and you're probably gonna yell, but sometimes that's the shock it takes, as long as it's not your first response.

torinus
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby torinus » Fri 15 Apr 2016 17:41

For the good of the game it would be much more useful if 4 top players made two teams of 2 and took each one noob into their team and they play vs each other. It would give them more fair games and they could educate 2 additional players that would join the group of good players one day. Then there would be more players that could do the same to teach even more players.

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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea"

Postby Predatorrrr » Sat 16 Apr 2016 16:00

I am very sorry that I play decent. So you are saying I should play worse on purpose? Because if I dont I will not get any more matches?

By the way I already stated why people need to change their nicknames: Good players would not get games for HOURS. Not minutes, but hours. I kid you not. Thats why people change their nicknames, because they have to in order to get any games. I am always looking forward to play against good players - there aren't a lot, that is the problem. And there are plenty of players who are Level 25+ and play the old AoA style in the new AoA reboot...which does not work out. And even if it doesn't work out, they dont adapt their strategies at all. Now, that is bad

torinus
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby torinus » Sat 16 Apr 2016 16:24

We are saying good players should play vs good players if possible like they do in other RTS games.

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ZxGanon
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby ZxGanon » Sat 16 Apr 2016 16:25

Predator pretty much nails it. The AoA community is just not able to adapt to anything good. I have encountered the same guys over and over again (because there are only 200 Players arround) and they still do not adapt to safe gameplays which causes into them losing to allinish strategies and they always answer in the chat: "rush noobs" or "wtf is this game".

The AoA community is just a bunch of whining kiddos too ignorant/unable to get better.

torinus wrote:We are saying good players should play vs good players if possible like they do in other RTS games.


There are no other good players in AoA...so in your opinion I have to play against my mates over and over again? This is getting boring after the 100th time and there is no one other worth playing against.
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AndreB
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby AndreB » Sun 17 Apr 2016 12:36

To be honest, really the only problem i see here, is a lack of players.

If you look at age of empires 2 HD edition or even community based ladder systems for supreme commander.
They all have a elo system for each individual player, and you can host ranked/unranked games on a lobby.

However this system only works for games that have a core playerbase of at least 1k people, if you start adding restrictions you will only make matters worse, because the playerbase is very low.

So currently i would just leave it like it is, if AoA ever reaches a high number of players, then you can add a ranking elo system to the lobby.

Predatorrrr
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Predatorrrr » Sun 17 Apr 2016 12:39

Indeed. On Page 3, Post 1 I wrote:

This discussion is pointless altogether until we get into the 1000+ player numbers on a regular basis.

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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea"

Postby lincrono » Sun 17 Apr 2016 19:01

Predatorrrr wrote:I am very sorry that I play decent. So you are saying I should play worse on purpose? Because if I dont I will not get any more matches?

By the way I already stated why people need to change their nicknames: Good players would not get games for HOURS. Not minutes, but hours. I kid you not. Thats why people change their nicknames, because they have to in order to get any games. I am always looking forward to play against good players - there aren't a lot, that is the problem. And there are plenty of players who are Level 25+ and play the old AoA style in the new AoA reboot...which does not work out. And even if it doesn't work out, they dont adapt their strategies at all. Now, that is bad



you already know you're probably the best player in the community, do you need to prove it to yourself every day with another dozen wins? Or, how about I put it this way: is it worth being the best player of a game no one plays anymore?

So yes, I'm saying hold back, if you really care about the community then your actions should reflect a teaching/mentoring mentality. Another thing, 'Hold back' doesn't necessarily mean play to lose, I honestly don't care if you win but there are ways of winning that feel like cheese, and ways of winning that let the enemy walk home feeling he did well, slugged it out, and lost a fair match, and maybe while you're doing this you can hop on the global chat and offer some advice to everyone present.

As for getting kicked only the host can do that, and I think we both know that the same dudes who kick good players at the drop of a hat DON'T tend to when that player is on their team. So change to his team before he kicks you, and if you can't do so in time msg him before trying to rejoin, I've done it myself and it works a good portion of the time. On top of that, don't roll around with a premade team of you, and another 2-3 of the top 20 players. If ya'll wanna slug it out in a group either make a private game (ya'll are lucky enough to know each other, this should be easy.) or divide yourselves evenly between the teams as they form.

As the quote goes: "With great power comes great responsibility."
You've got the power: a strong playing ability
with that comes the responsibility to foster this community and that requires mentoring and coaching and explaining, against every opponent and ally in every game. Am I saying do it in every game? not really, some day's you'll be tired or just not feel like it, I'm not asking you to sacrifice your enjoyment. Am I saying it's easy? Yeah I am, it takes very little effort the worst that happens is they flame you and who the hell cares about that? Take the win as your consolation prize, rest assured that you're the best and they're mad, and know that the important thing is: THEY STILL HEAR YOU. and you'll often find once they've cooled down they'll copy your tactics and take your advice and then spread it to others who watch them and want to be that good.

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