[Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

torinus
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby torinus » Sun 17 Apr 2016 20:04

+100 for what lincrono says.

Predatorrrr
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Predatorrrr » Sun 17 Apr 2016 22:28

Ok, you have played around five games against me. Five out of 2,000. Yes, two thousand. Great benchmark. You know perfectly well how I play, you totally do. Big LOL on that one. It is common in every game out there to talk smack to the top players. On that note, I take it with a big grain of salt.

You want to know how I got the wins? First, I think while I play. I tried to find counters to Abrams Spam, to Plane Spam, ... And so I did. Its a strategy game, and I try to find strategies; only some players do that in this game, which is very sad. People do not scout the enemy and go straight for late game. Then they complain about being attacked after 10 minutes? Come on, seriously?

By the way, about that mentoring part, I got a YouTube Channel for that. If I try to mentor people in the game itself it comes down to this "Shut the f**k up". :D

"do you need to prove it to yourself every day with another dozen wins?"
Short: No.
Long: No, I do not since I got a great real life.

I play two or three matches on average per day, I do not see the issue. If people turn away from this game because they play against me then you overrate my power - big time.

And I do not consider myself to be the best player, there is always someone who is nerdier.

And to catch up with the first argument: You played five games against me, you have no clue what I do on average.

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ZxGanon
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby ZxGanon » Mon 18 Apr 2016 02:10

Why should I mentor people because Im the better player?
Get better yourself thats how I did it.

If you cannot figure it out yourself you have to watch replays you find on the internet or maybe analyse your own replays...

Also why should someone hold back? This would be the biggest insult I could ever imagine happening to me in a video game.
I mean wow Im not worth getting matched by his true strength so he is letting me get into the game while playing with me like a toy/prey.

If people get mad and quit the game because of me being too good or what ever than they are just a bunch of whinie kiddos/super butthurt and should be arround on the internet.

Srsly deliver better arguments this is boring.
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Spector
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea"

Postby Spector » Mon 18 Apr 2016 07:23

lincrono wrote:you already know you're probably the best player in the community, do you need to prove it to yourself every day with another dozen wins? Or, how about I put it this way: is it worth being the best player of a game no one plays anymore?
As the quote goes: "With great power comes great responsibility."
You've got the power: a strong playing ability
with that comes the responsibility to foster this community and that requires mentoring and coaching and explaining, against every opponent and ally in every game.


Well put. +1

ZxGanon wrote:If people get mad and quit the game because of me being too good or what ever than they are just a bunch of whinie kiddos/super butthurt and should be arround on the internet.
Srsly deliver better arguments this is boring...


Only thing that is boring is an empty game with no player base.

Predatorrrr wrote:Ok, you have played around five games against me. Five out of 2,000. Yes, two thousand...

Predatorrrr wrote:I play two or three matches on average per day, ...

Well if that is the case you math is off... by a lot. Game came out in September last year, that is seven months ago, each month has around 30 days, and since you say you play 2.5 matches on average per day that would be 7*30*2.5 = 525
BUT since you say:
Predatorrrr wrote: ... I got a great real life.

Then I have to reduce that by about 20%, because people who have a great real life don't get to play every day, so we end up with 525*0.8 = 420 matches.
I think that is quite far from 2000. Don't you think?
"All your bases are belong to us", Zero Wing, 1991.

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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Uppy » Mon 18 Apr 2016 07:40

The best players who I believe still play the game

1) AndreB , Dotdash, ZxGanon
2) Araton, Predetoor,Birnensaft
3) Westgun,Gnef,Cruelty ,OpticalX,Mano

Maybe I forgot a name or two , and it comes by this category as for the rest of the player base they are lagging behind and that's why we do need mentors

Sad story but it's true

torinus
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby torinus » Mon 18 Apr 2016 11:06

ZxGanon wrote:Why should I mentor people because Im the better player?
Get better yourself thats how I did it.

If you cannot figure it out yourself you have to watch replays you find on the internet or maybe analyse your own replays...

Also why should someone hold back? This would be the biggest insult I could ever imagine happening to me in a video game.
I mean wow Im not worth getting matched by his true strength so he is letting me get into the game while playing with me like a toy/prey.

If people get mad and quit the game because of me being too good or what ever than they are just a bunch of whinie kiddos/super butthurt and should be arround on the internet.

Srsly deliver better arguments this is boring.

While this is a perfectly legal comment, it also causes people to quit playing the game.
In comparison in Starcraft 2 community better players were happy to teach others to become better or to write tutorials or strategy guides for specific matchups because they know that is only way to keep or enlarge a community.

People will want to join or stay a part of positive, welcoming community and run away from one that is not.

It is your right to host a game with 2 of your high level buddies, get 3 noobs or average players to join, beat them senseless and call them bad players and noobs on the forums but then complaining about this game not having enough players is the right of everyone else.

How come this was not a practice in Grey Goo community that for most of the time had even less players? Most good players play 1v1 ranked there and fight vs more equal level players.

While getting more players into AoA Reboot will make these situation more rare, it will not change the situation that this community is not very welcome to new players.

I for one would never join or host a game with Noob in name as it is pointless to destroy those players. They will learn nothing and only become frustrated and I will smash someone that is less challenging than a Very Hard AI. Players don't learn vs people that are few categories above their skill level and game knowledge, it does not work like that.
If you go on a Tennis court and play vs Federer you will not learn much about Tennis. But you will learn how it feels to be powerless.

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Megiddo
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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Megiddo » Mon 18 Apr 2016 11:38

If you go on a Tennis court and play vs Federer you will not learn much about Tennis


Are you sure? :)

You learn specially vs better players...but i agree, when having a little community, good players have to be fair play sometimes...
Beating a guy if you can, without holding your skill is a form of respect i think...a guy feeling that he's played with and taunted won't have the taste to come back...at least, less easily.

I understand the good players reasoning, but the others too...maybe the best is to keep playing normally, but agree to share some advices, stay polite and fair play all the time, sometimes sharing some training sessions with lower skilled players...

On the other hand, the new and average players can try to learn the game through training, watch replays, train in little groups before going in 1v1s...

A little community will grow basically if the game is good, then if its community is welcoming and pleasant :)
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby lincrono » Mon 18 Apr 2016 21:28

ZxGanon wrote:Why should I mentor people because Im the better player?


Um, because you want the game to survive? On top of that, because you want the game to someday be filled with players of equal and better skill who offer tough, challenging matches from which you can learn and grow.

ZxGanon wrote:Also why should someone hold back? This would be the biggest insult I could ever imagine happening to me in a video game.
I mean wow Im not worth getting matched by his true strength so he is letting me get into the game while playing with me like a toy/prey.



The kinds of players who would 1. be able to tell. and 2. be 'insulted' are not the player's we're talking about here. As I stated earlier, there are ways of winning that feel like or are cheese and ways of winning that let the guy walk home feeling like he slugged it out and lost a tough, BUT FAIR, match.

I'll give you an example. as you're scouting the enemy base you notice he has no stealth detection. Lots of new player start US, and we all know it offers less user friendly stealth detection than the other factions. Instead of marching your 20 LOSAT army right into the middle of his base and one shotting all his buildings FTW, maybe you just take out one of his expansions.

-you still gain a significant advantage
-your army is still intact and usable
-if he doesn't adapt, rolling into his base 5-10 minutes later is perfectly acceptable.

at the same time
-he has a chance to learn (especially if you perhaps offer a global chat hint)
-he's not dealing with the shock and frustration of watching his whole base burn in the span of a minute, so he's actually open to suggestions
-if he flames you, WHO CARES? be a man, brush his words off, because I know and you know that over his next 10 or so games he'll make that mistake less and less, after all that's how we learned.

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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Predatorrrr » Mon 18 Apr 2016 21:56

Oh yeah, i have plenty of time after each semester. You can't even imagine. :D
MovingAverage10 applied.

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Re: [Suggestion] fair games for noobs - "idea" to keep them

Postby Hakime » Tue 19 Apr 2016 00:07

How about you flip the script and realize that when people join a new game and start playing online the first time that it's normal they get owned by players who've been playing longer then they have?

And in Pred's case he even posts video's online of how he plays? You can't even begin to blame him for not sharing his experience. (Ganon and co do this too I believe)

There are resources enough to start playing better, people are just lazy and are surprised they get defeated by tactics other then sitting in their base and building end-tier units. Get realistic dude...

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