Eugen please watch this.

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Megiddo
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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby Megiddo » Wed 20 Apr 2016 14:49

Yeah i can understand that, but imo the beta phase is going to last during a time...MadMat himself made this statement, saying in substance, if i remember well : "we didn't say what was the date for the end of the Beta", implying logically that they're going to make it last longer...They have several teams...and nothing really urges concerning AoA i think...

If they can take enough time to polish perfectly all the details, it suits to everybody, i think.

They made the reboot...let's do what it takes to deliver a tremendous reboot and advertise it with a trailer or something when it's done, to maximise the effect...We haven't spoken yet about the combat mechanisms, the homogeneous group movements and the formations, the threat priorisation, the physics of choppers, among other things...They really made great efforts and good changes so far, but there are plenty of things left to improve, beyond the balance.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby torinus » Wed 20 Apr 2016 16:08

Yes there are many things left to improve but if they wanted to improve those things they would have by now improved at least some of it.
They said they originally planned to improve less things but then did a bigger overhaul of the gameplay. Since none of these other things went into that overhaul my guess is that it never will.

Since beta started they did no more improvements except fix bugs and change some numbers around. It does not give me confidence that we will ever get any more of the important fixes.

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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby Opticalx » Wed 20 Apr 2016 18:30

Well my main issue with things, is that there are too much multi-roll things going on at the moment. The javlin is right now as it stands is multi-roll. Its an artillery unit, anti tank, anti infantry, anti-building and makes ciws useless. Its roll as a master of anti tanks should be focus on killing tanks. Its ability to indirect fire on everything on the ground feels just wrong, the NLOS guidance should only work on Tanks/Ground vehicles. And its direct fire should be usable on buildings and infantry( at reduced dmg ). That solves the problem of it countering all ground inits. Then things like the mortar teams can be used to attack buildings and clear garrisons with the WP upgrade. And rifle men can get into range to attack them. If it was like that I would fine with how much they cost right now as it just solidifies there roll as the anti-tank infantry.
Youtube - Opticalx

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Megiddo
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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby Megiddo » Wed 20 Apr 2016 18:57

Opticalx wrote: the NLOS guidance should only work on Tanks/Ground vehicles. And its direct fire should be usable on buildings and infantry( at reduced dmg ). That solves the problem of it countering all ground inits. Then things like the mortar teams can be used to attack buildings and clear garrisons with the WP upgrade. And rifle men can get into range to attack them. If it was like that I would fine with how much they cost right now as it just solidifies there roll as the anti-tank infantry.



Sounds reasonable, at least for the infantry Javelin...then, it raises some questions, about the Guardians NLOS missiles for example. Would you do the same or simply prevent ATGMs from firing at infantry (outside of buildings)? then the Guardian would have to handle infantry with its autocanon and its rockets...

The same for the Spike LR missiles, or the Superhind AT missile for example or other ATGMs...imho, better have the same rule for everyone, such as a clear ATGM firing interdiction against infantry in the open...

Question of realism, yes, and fair balance...Anyways, it's Eugen call, and maybe they could indicate their decision on the matter...if something like this realism improvement is a conceivable thing, or if it's simply out of the equation.

Just so we could recenter the debate and the arguments the useful way.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby Opticalx » Wed 20 Apr 2016 19:28

Megiddo wrote:
Opticalx wrote: the NLOS guidance should only work on Tanks/Ground vehicles. And its direct fire should be usable on buildings and infantry( at reduced dmg ). That solves the problem of it countering all ground inits. Then things like the mortar teams can be used to attack buildings and clear garrisons with the WP upgrade. And rifle men can get into range to attack them. If it was like that I would fine with how much they cost right now as it just solidifies there roll as the anti-tank infantry.



Sounds reasonable, at least for the infantry Javelin...then, it raises some questions, about the Guardians NLOS missiles for example. Would you do the same or simply prevent ATGMs from firing at infantry (outside of buildings)? then the Guardian would have to handle infantry with its autocanon and its rockets...

The same for the Spike LR missiles, or the Superhind AT missile for example or other ATGMs...imho, better have the same rule for everyone, such as a clear ATGM firing interdiction against infantry in the open...

Question of realism, yes, and fair balance...Anyways, it's Eugen call, and maybe they could indicate their decision on the matter...if something like this realism improvement is a conceivable thing, or if it's simply out of the equation.

Just so we could recenter the debate and the arguments the useful way.


Yeah, no doubt its up to the dev's ultimately. But I'm just firing out suggestions and keeping the idea's fresh. My idea on the behavior of the missle is. Ohh look there is a tank, time to lock on and use my indirect missile at the thing. Then Ohh look its a infantry unit, I need to get closer to get a better shot at him since my indirect missile can't lock onto flesh :D
Youtube - Opticalx

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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby atdsutm » Thu 21 Apr 2016 06:49

AA missiles should also slow down a bit. It is already hard to micro choppers away from danger.

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DrunkenCyclop
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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby DrunkenCyclop » Thu 21 Apr 2016 11:04

atdsutm wrote:AA missiles should also slow down a bit. It is already hard to micro choppers away from danger.


We won't do that, since too slow AA missiles won't be able to catch up with aircraft.

Megiddo wrote:Question of realism, yes, and fair balance...Anyways, it's Eugen call, and maybe they could indicate their decision on the matter...if something like this realism improvement is a conceivable thing, or if it's simply out of the equation.


Nope. It's not a question of realism at all ! Since most ATGMs can be fitted with anti-personnel charges, like the Hellfire, Ataka, Metys, Spike-LR, etc ...

I won't spoil the patchlog in details, but don't worry : we worked on the javelin anti-personnel capacity. :)

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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby Uppy » Thu 21 Apr 2016 11:11

Hi Cyclope :)

without spoiling any patchlog

just not only Javelins ,Viper As Well

infantry in general overshadows others units


most of our games 80-90% is infantry spam from begining to end , we need this addressed

thank you

torinus
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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby torinus » Thu 21 Apr 2016 11:59

Uppy wrote:Hi Cyclope :)

without spoiling any patchlog

just not only Javelins ,Viper As Well

infantry in general overshadows others units


most of our games 80-90% is infantry spam from begining to end , we need this addressed

thank you

Play bigger maps and infantry will not be such a big problem.

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ZxGanon
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Re: Eugen please watch this.

Postby ZxGanon » Thu 21 Apr 2016 15:22

torinus wrote:
Uppy wrote:Hi Cyclope :)

without spoiling any patchlog

just not only Javelins ,Viper As Well

infantry in general overshadows others units


most of our games 80-90% is infantry spam from begining to end , we need this addressed

thank you

Play bigger maps and infantry will not be such a big problem.

Than Proxy the damn raxx That's how good players surpass those Boring big maps.

Increase the price of Viper and Javelins too 400$ an let missiles miss infantry.

Increase the overall speed on every infantry and make Vehicles finally stronger.

Infantry is overall better than producing vehicles (blazers get over shadowed by stingers).

Increase the viability of units and bring more Options into the game. The more control and clear counters exist there are less frustrating gameplay Elements.
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