[AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

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AndreB
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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby AndreB » Sat 30 Apr 2016 13:28

Uppy wrote:The Problem with this idea while it's great

riffle infantry wont do any damage to humvee all in and if you decide to give rocket infantry chimera has none

so i actually don't know about giving chimera sas units early on


Yup, that is the problem with what i suggested. Maybe also one of the reasons why they decided to go with a turret.

But the question does remain should you have protection against vehicles at all? or shouldn't you just be safe versus capture?, and you could in theory just get an SAS into the HQ for defense.

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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby Megiddo » Sat 30 Apr 2016 13:47

Or in theory we could simply just produce a humvee more, embark the already existing infantry in it with one or two more produced ones, and rush even more :lol: .

I think the same imbalances would stay if units were added at start. Or it would have to be some sort of "lieutenant Jefferson" slow and strong infantry unit, unable to be embarked in vehicles, unable to be garrisoned, and acting a bit like the Commander in Supcom. Able to heal or spread a productivity buff around it...you see the picture.

Respectfully, be assured that this rush versus defense at start is not specially something you introduced guys, maybe you micro it correctly, but it has always been there. It's just related to balance concerns like income levels or prices and the values of units. Here again, prices and HP. Not so much their damages. All units since the first rifleman have always been too weak. Honestly guys, please take no offense from that, but sometimes your will to lobby your beloved rush moves with vehicles and later with tank spams is blindingly evident ;)

Just ask ourselves the good questions, like this one : Given the low HP level of a rifleman, its slowness and sometimes the control issues we have, do they have enough HP so we can have the time to play, micro or develop some kind of tactics with them?

Here's another : Given the short amount of HP the units have, and their number on the field because of the low prices, can we really make a difference and appreciate the effectiveness between a softcounter and a Hardcounter, if by chance the units aren't simply one shot or overkilled since the first contact?

Is the combat part deep enough?

...
Last edited by Megiddo on Sat 30 Apr 2016 14:27, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby Uppy » Sat 30 Apr 2016 14:05

i think the best solution will be add a turret on the hq

and make Warfactory Require Power + Ref , i think that would be the best change without effecting other build order 2 much

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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby ZxGanon » Sat 30 Apr 2016 14:25

Uppy wrote:i think the best solution will be add a turret on the hq

and make Warfactory Require Power + Ref , i think that would be the best change without effecting other build order 2 much

But this turret has to be a purchaseable upgrade to Provide more options and scout possibilities.

Also I would like to see more changes. Honestly I know making a map costs a lot of time (since they also are so big which is sad) so why not releasing a maptool finally so that you guys can concentrate on way more important things while the community creates the maps which Eugen can upload.

Costs less time and you do not waste money.
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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby bvb09 » Sat 30 Apr 2016 14:35

How do you like the idea to give every faction a spy drone like C&C Generals USA as an upgrade at beginning instead of turret or unarmed recon unit?
i think this would solve it.

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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby torinus » Sat 30 Apr 2016 14:42

bvb09 wrote:How do you like the idea to give every faction a spy drone like C&C Generals USA as an upgrade at beginning instead of turret or unarmed recon unit?
i think this would solve it.

I would love a spy drone like that. I didn't make Generals less of a skill game. Starcraft terrans have scan as well that works like that and that is cool as well.

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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby SteffanBFC » Sat 30 Apr 2016 15:30

yea.. spy drone or smth equal would be great..
and i like ganons suggestion to give us a map creator... it works in every other game so why it shouldnt work here?
and devs rly would have much more time for other problems

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby AndreB » Sat 30 Apr 2016 15:35

Megiddo wrote:Respectfully, be assured that this rush versus defense at start is not specially something you introduced guys, maybe you micro it correctly, but it has always been there.
...


Yeah i mean in the old version recon rushes and early attacks were quite prevalent, and almost every US player used his first recon to snipe harvesters.

I never lobbied towards rushes ;), in fact i lobbied against them(especially humvees), but now iam in this weird position of almost being forced to defend rushing as a tactic.

torinus wrote:
bvb09 wrote:How do you like the idea to give every faction a spy drone like C&C Generals USA as an upgrade at beginning instead of turret or unarmed recon unit?
i think this would solve it.

I would love a spy drone like that. I didn't make Generals less of a skill game. Starcraft terrans have scan as well that works like that and that is cool as well.


Well id love a recon unit regardless of its type, humvee, land drone, air drone.

Uppy wrote:i think the best solution will be add a turret on the hq

and make Warfactory Require Power + Ref , i think that would be the best change without effecting other build order 2 much


Maybe, it surely makes it the easiest change to make without disturbing the game more.
Still i feel id want a recon unit regardless....

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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby Megiddo » Sat 30 Apr 2016 16:09

@Andre : we see you keep a good objectivity, so does Ganon recently, and i really agree that rushing versus a rush is finally a valuable tactic, maybe better than a real defense + counter move, which is, somewhere, quite strange even if explainable (low prices, low HP levels, fast reinforcement cycles)...heh, i guess we're all trying to lobby for something after all, But objectivity from the good players is important for sure :)

Back on the topic, yeah, there are some examples that could fit with this recon or defensive choice at start, always with the HQ btw.

We all seem to agree that such a strategic choice could imply to pay something, rather than just being a gift. As you said there is also the SC2 example. For the Terrans, you have the choice to upgrade the command center in different ways, and it could also work for AoA : an early payable upgrade to add a turret on it, or an early upgrade unlocking a recon AoE ability. we would have to pay to use this ability, at the cost of some production capacity, but we would get the intel...

But maybe it sounds better to do it with a unit for sure. A recon drone could be purchased in the HQ, could be another solution, but as some of you said, i'm not sure that getting any intel, specially if we have to pay for it, could help, alone, the relations between the early rushes vs the defense.

Also more progressive and parallel building dependencies in the faction tech trees could help for sure. I mean, almost all seem defendable and counter-able with training, but the vehicles seem to appear a little bit too early in the game course. As we discussed several times, maybe the Barracks requirement for everyone, before anything else, could be a good solution as well.
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Re: [AoA Reboot Beta] Patch v.390 ... + NEW MAP

Postby ZxGanon » Sat 30 Apr 2016 16:42

SteffanBFC wrote:yea.. spy drone or smth equal would be great..
and i like ganons suggestion to give us a map creator... it works in every other game so why it shouldnt work here?
and devs rly would have much more time for other problems

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

The first thing I would do is creating smaller Maps just to see if it fits the game better and recreate some good old maps from Red Alert 2, Generals and CnC3.

Vote for me as president of Map-Creation and I will grant you all awesome maps (from 1vs1 to 4v4 and even some FFA maps).

In the meantime Eugensystems has more time to work on building sound responses, unit walking and drving sounds, unit response sounds when it finished its production/training. Also rebalancing the early game and changing the factory requirements, adding stuff like stances, a total ladder revamp and a new system for replay and observe tool.

And many more important things they have to work on. Doesnt that sound great?
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