[AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

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Gnougnou
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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby Gnougnou » Fri 13 May 2016 19:04

Walker wrote:Well, i can understand Eugen so far, cause your arguments throughout are somewhat contradictory/inconsistent.

On the one Hand u complain about a TURRET, where u decide that NO ONE needs it, and on the other hand u want a SCOUTING UNIT .....

Did you read the main topic of this thread ? Where is that incosistant/contradictory ? It is crystal clear.

For the turret, it has not been discussed on this thread, so I don't even know why you bring it here. I've never said that no one needed it. I said that it is a very weird way to fix things. Imagine a game were a tank is broken, and so you have no idea how to fix it while being simple (increase price, nerf damages) so you give everybody some rocket soldiers as a fix. This is the same with turrets. Not a single C&C needed it, nor Sup Com or whatever. They always found a solution other than giving a turret for free as a """debug""" for all kind of early rush....

Scout has been asked by a large majority of this forum. People wanted unharmed scout so you can't harrass. I'm sorry but liking blind game has nothing to do with strategy. Spying the enemy and know what he is up for is a KEY of strategy. Those units exist, and have been removed because apparently they were only useful for ressources, according to the devs, which give us a very well idea of their skill :lol:

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby McNash » Fri 13 May 2016 20:44

Most gamers' feedback depends on what their emotional states are after the last 3 games.
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Walker
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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby Walker » Fri 13 May 2016 21:18

Gnougnou wrote:
Walker wrote:Well, i can understand Eugen so far, cause your arguments throughout are somewhat contradictory/inconsistent.

On the one Hand u complain about a TURRET, where u decide that NO ONE needs it, and on the other hand u want a SCOUTING UNIT .....

Did you read the main topic of this thread ? Where is that incosistant/contradictory ? It is crystal clear.

For the turret, it has not been discussed on this thread, so I don't even know why you bring it here. I've never said that no one needed it. I said that it is a very weird way to fix things. Imagine a game were a tank is broken, and so you have no idea how to fix it while being simple (increase price, nerf damages) so you give everybody some rocket soldiers as a fix. This is the same with turrets. Not a single C&C needed it, nor Sup Com or whatever. They always found a solution other than giving a turret for free as a """debug""" for all kind of early rush....

Scout has been asked by a large majority of this forum. People wanted unharmed scout so you can't harrass. I'm sorry but liking blind game has nothing to do with strategy. Spying the enemy and know what he is up for is a KEY of strategy. Those units exist, and have been removed because apparently they were only useful for ressources, according to the devs, which give us a very well idea of their skill :lol:


Yes u are right I mix the things u and other "hardcore-ultra-good-players" said here and in other threads, BUT the message is clear:

Few people here talk for many other in the community. You allow yourself the verdict to say turrets are shit, but maybe the rest of the community would say your scouting vehicle is shit too! So what now? You say: If u want a turret in your base, then build one. I say, if u want a scouting vehicle build that shit too!
Is it so difficult to understand?
Your winning most of your games and still crying like a baby here. damn god! You can´t help this people here....

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby Hakime » Fri 13 May 2016 22:10

Walker wrote:
Gnougnou wrote:
Walker wrote:Well, i can understand Eugen so far, cause your arguments throughout are somewhat contradictory/inconsistent.

On the one Hand u complain about a TURRET, where u decide that NO ONE needs it, and on the other hand u want a SCOUTING UNIT .....

Did you read the main topic of this thread ? Where is that incosistant/contradictory ? It is crystal clear.

For the turret, it has not been discussed on this thread, so I don't even know why you bring it here. I've never said that no one needed it. I said that it is a very weird way to fix things. Imagine a game were a tank is broken, and so you have no idea how to fix it while being simple (increase price, nerf damages) so you give everybody some rocket soldiers as a fix. This is the same with turrets. Not a single C&C needed it, nor Sup Com or whatever. They always found a solution other than giving a turret for free as a """debug""" for all kind of early rush....

Scout has been asked by a large majority of this forum. People wanted unharmed scout so you can't harrass. I'm sorry but liking blind game has nothing to do with strategy. Spying the enemy and know what he is up for is a KEY of strategy. Those units exist, and have been removed because apparently they were only useful for ressources, according to the devs, which give us a very well idea of their skill :lol:


Yes u are right I mix the things u and other "hardcore-ultra-good-players" said here and in other threads, BUT the message is clear:

Few people here talk for many other in the community. You allow yourself the verdict to say turrets are shit, but maybe the rest of the community would say your scouting vehicle is shit too! So what now? You say: If u want a turret in your base, then build one. I say, if u want a scouting vehicle build that shit too!
Is it so difficult to understand?
Your winning most of your games and still crying like a baby here. damn god! You can´t help this people here....


I don't really know what angle you're coming from? A dedicated scouting unit is something almost every other RTS has. It was a feature they had, and then removed? That seems pretty silly to me. Look at the stealth kodiak thing early game, you can't even scout it as US because you have no way of seeing it untill you get to defcon 2. You have no way of knowing what your enemy is up too, so you just "hope" you get the counter to what they're building. (pro-tip: it's almost always terminators)

About the turret, it can either be smoked or ignored while people rape your RU op from just outside it's range. This just gives good players a bigger advantage and new players a false sense of security. Even giving 400 dollars if you sell your turret

One issue has nothing to do with the other, so don't start mingling them and I really don't know why you're so angry?

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby Gnougnou » Fri 13 May 2016 22:14

Walker wrote:Yes u are right I mix the things u and other "hardcore-ultra-good-players" said here and in other threads, BUT the message is clear:

Few people here talk for many other in the community. You allow yourself the verdict to say turrets are shit, but maybe the rest of the community would say your scouting vehicle is shit too! So what now? You say: If u want a turret in your base, then build one. I say, if u want a scouting vehicle build that shit too!
Is it so difficult to understand?
Your winning most of your games and still crying like a baby here. damn god! You can´t help this people here....

Yes I allow myself to say that turrets are shit, because unlike for your "rest of the community" that "would say my scouting vehicules is shit", I have arguments. Your posts are full of anger, resulting in non-sense comparisons. As already said by someone else, the cost of building scouts is very high, while we had a free scout at the beginning in the old AoA. They wanted to focus the game on attacks, but removed scouting units and replaced them with a free turret, which doesn't make any sense either.

Yes I do win most of my games, and you have a nice score too if I remember well, and then what ? if you look closely at my thread, you'll see that this is a basic "How to make this game better" and not a "crying like a baby" thread. If you ever played an RTS, then you should now that things in this game are just fucked up, and all you are doing here is defending Eugen for a game that failed for obvious reasons.

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby Walker » Sat 14 May 2016 08:59

Gnougnou wrote: Your posts are full of anger, resulting in non-sense comparisons.


Yes I am angry. A bit on Eugen cause it seems as if they stopped working on this game again and on you (majority) repeating same things every day! You have your opinion but do not talk for all players of this comunity.

My comparisons are not non-sense. I am sure a 6 years old boy would understand it. I am talking about changes YOU want to have because YOU know exactly what you want to do with it (beating your enemies even faster).

Your comparisons are non-sense. This is AoA, it it not Starcraft, Wargames, 8-bit armies or something else. So why do compare them every day ?(yea it is RTS but an apple taste also different when you buy it from a different Region) You order Eugen to make this game like the others. It´s your fault that there is Reboot.
Vanilla Version was great! Me and many other players liked it. There were only some bugs to fix but you cried for Reboot.

Hakime wrote:A dedicated scouting unit is something almost every other RTS has. It was a feature they had, and then removed? That seems pretty silly to me. You have no way of knowing what your enemy is up too, so you just "hope" you get the counter to what they're building.

Gnougnou wrote: As already said by someone else, the cost of building scouts is very high, while we had a free scout at the beginning in the old AoA .

There is one easy solution: Play the vanilla version and enjoy the free scout at the beginning. If you need a scout in Reboot build it within 1 min of the game. For cartel it costs 800$ that´s a shit of nothing! You play multiplayer most of the time and you use TS. It is not possible that just one guy of your team builds a scout at the beginning of a game? You need the FREE scout so much in Reboot?

Hakime wrote:About the turret, it can either be smoked or ignored while people rape your RU op from just outside it's range. This just gives good players a bigger advantage and new players a false sense of security. Even giving 400 dollars if you sell your turret

Do not get me wrong, I don´t need the turret too but it was Eugen´s decision and it is your arrogant manner responding to that what annoys me. By the way i can realize that HQ captures are declined, so that could be a good step for our new friends in the community.

----I'm out here, the discussion is finished!------

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby SteffanBFC » Sat 14 May 2016 10:55

walker are u for real? RTS = Real Time Strategy
for strategy in real time u need to scout every time.. u need to know how ur opponent open the game... yea and u need to know it in first 30seconds. it isnt a subjective opinion.. its just strategy. to get a turret for free where is it strategy ? maybe a compromise (which i wouldnt rly like but better than curennt version) would be to build a scoutin unit in HQ.. so we can scout while we build or barracks and refs. to say just buy a vehicle bay and humvee etc is just bad. u need over a minute for that and its expensive like shit. it could be to late after 3min to know what oppenent is doin.. for REAL TIME STRATEGY u need to know this every time, not just after 3 or 4 mins..

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby Hakime » Sat 14 May 2016 11:37

Walker wrote:
Gnougnou wrote: Your posts are full of anger, resulting in non-sense comparisons.


Yes I am angry. A bit on Eugen cause it seems as if they stopped working on this game again and on you (majority) repeating same things every day! You have your opinion but do not talk for all players of this comunity.

My comparisons are not non-sense. I am sure a 6 years old boy would understand it. I am talking about changes YOU want to have because YOU know exactly what you want to do with it (beating your enemies even faster).

Your comparisons are non-sense. This is AoA, it it not Starcraft, Wargames, 8-bit armies or something else. So why do compare them every day ?(yea it is RTS but an apple taste also different when you buy it from a different Region) You order Eugen to make this game like the others. It´s your fault that there is Reboot.
Vanilla Version was great! Me and many other players liked it. There were only some bugs to fix but you cried for Reboot.

Hakime wrote:A dedicated scouting unit is something almost every other RTS has. It was a feature they had, and then removed? That seems pretty silly to me. You have no way of knowing what your enemy is up too, so you just "hope" you get the counter to what they're building.

Gnougnou wrote: As already said by someone else, the cost of building scouts is very high, while we had a free scout at the beginning in the old AoA .

There is one easy solution: Play the vanilla version and enjoy the free scout at the beginning. If you need a scout in Reboot build it within 1 min of the game. For cartel it costs 800$ that´s a shit of nothing! You play multiplayer most of the time and you use TS. It is not possible that just one guy of your team builds a scout at the beginning of a game? You need the FREE scout so much in Reboot?

Hakime wrote:About the turret, it can either be smoked or ignored while people rape your RU op from just outside it's range. This just gives good players a bigger advantage and new players a false sense of security. Even giving 400 dollars if you sell your turret

Do not get me wrong, I don´t need the turret too but it was Eugen´s decision and it is your arrogant manner responding to that what annoys me. By the way i can realize that HQ captures are declined, so that could be a good step for our new friends in the community.

----I'm out here, the discussion is finished!------


What? Almost everything you said is opinion or unsubstantiated fact. If you are angry with Eugen direct it at them, not us.

We did not ask for the reboot, at all. All the old game needed were nerfed planes and some stability fixes. But hey, its here now, its not going away and judging from player scores and reviews everybody likes it better. But everybody still leaves after 5 days because simple stuff that other RTSes have isnt in the game.

And again I dont know why you are getting personal again, lol. If I offended you sorry dude, I really enjoyed the games we had together and I think you are a very good player and Id like to play against/with you sometime soon.

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby SteffanBFC » Sat 14 May 2016 11:46

to be fair - a lot of people wanted the reboot.. especially the ressource system.. to many beginners couldnt handle the 3 ressource system and i think theyre much happier now..
but it was a mistake to listen to beginners.. with a bigger community and focus on competetive play this game would be a much greater victory for eugen. but nevermind we had this discussion about 200 times.. hakime i said same 1 month ago.. the old version was great till the chopper becomes imba "balance" patch

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Re: [AoW/AoA] AoA today VS his old brother

Postby AndreB » Sat 14 May 2016 12:51

This is a pointless discussion, the game has stagnated and is quite set in stone for the forseable future. If we had modding tools we could test all these things in our own little mod and see if they worked properly. Since we can't we can only speculate and throw ideas at eugen systems.

In terms of the old version, i liked how you could control each individual fighter, and i also enjoyed seeing a lot of harvestors moving around your base, it was cool. But ultimatly it was super broken, the best tactic was sometimes opening 4 ref into mass stryker, guardians, superhinds, fenneks e.t.c..

Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the idea of having a 3 resource system, but it felt Eugen went way over their heads and couldn't balance that complexity into a easy to understand economy system.

I actually tried helping new people when i hosted 1v1 games, and it was a nightmare for them to properly start playing the game. From the weird duality of aluminium and oil to the strange fact you needed LEMs and storage facilities in specific places.

It was cool but it was a complete noob trap, for several reasons, like people would build a single ref and expect it to be fine, proceeding to complain about the lack of overall economy.

So the reboot to me removed all of this complexity and helped a lot of people get into the game and have a good time, so that in general was a positive change.

You might say it removed some fun aspects, and i 100% agree with you, there are a lot of things that aren't possible anymore. But on a pure developers standpoint and sales perspective the reboot is way superior to the previous game because its just easier to understand and get a fun game going.

I know this just prooved they couldn't develop a 3 resource system RTS and that is true, their approach failed in that regard, but it mostly failed in the early/mid parts of the game.

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